Sunday Afternoon Session

Started by prsauer, July 21, 2019, 02:08:00 PM

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prsauer

We are actually ahead in the schedule by about 20 minutes. Newly elected VP Ben Ball, chair of Committee for Convention Nominations presents the slate of candidates for secretary of synod, which is open to floor nominations.

President Harrison has harsh words for those who make floor nominations while disparaging other candidates.

No additional secretary nominations.

Slate for Synod Board of Directors is presented and Nominations from the floor are now open

And we have our first nomination from the pool:
Jan Lohmeyer for Commissioned - Approved 70%

Delegate attempts to nominate Kory Mass as Lay Delegate except that he is ordained... so no vote

Another nomination this time for someone already on the ballot, followed by another nomination for someone already on the ballot

And that closes things out there 4 nominations only 1 of which was in order... Not a real smooth go through for the first time this has been allowed.

Mercifully, we have a presentation celebrating Mission in Latin American and the Caribbean Region, which leads to an exodus for the restrooms.


Charles Austin

Iowa-born. Long-time in NY/New Jersey, former LWF staff in Geneva.
ELCA PASTOR, ordained 1967. Former journalist. Retired in Minneapolis.
GUILTY on ALL 34 counts

prsauer

98% of people give thanks for Ministry in Latin America and the Caribbean.  Not sure how you oppose this but there you go...

prsauer

Pages 249-250 in your workbook.

And the microphones queue up (Thanks Charles) -

7-21 is removed from the omnibus as the floor committee is going to come forward with something.

Vote to close debate. Approved. Now the vote on the omnibus is approved as well by 89.4%

prsauer

The floor committee begins with a Church Worker recruitment video. Highlighting DCEs, Church Musicians, Deaconesses, Teachers, and of course Ministers of Religion - Ordained.

As the floor committee chairman John Hill lays out a theological treatise to presumably introduce the resolutions, I pause to share the reflections of one of the visitors to ALPB headquarters:

Beyond the United List, there is a generational shift going on in the LCMS leadership with Lange and Ball. Old DPs did not show well in the elections. The younger pastors who did tended to be more liturgical. I don't think that the visitor is wrong. I do however wonder what this might do for the further marginalization of less liturgical churches (which tend to be larger and wealthier). Those who know me know that I serve in the von Schenk Parish and don't believe liturgy is an adiaphora. I do wonder how long this disparate poles in Missouri will be able to hold, or if anyone even cares to try and hold them together. We'll see what the next three years bring.

Jim Butler

Quote from: prsauer on July 21, 2019, 03:50:46 PM
98% of people give thanks for Ministry in Latin America and the Caribbean.  Not sure how you oppose this but there you go...

How do you oppose this?

I can only speak for myself at the last convention. I would vote agains this for two reasons: 1) I dislike the idea of voting on resolutions to "give thanks" (I would rather it say "all stand and sing  the doxology or some such) and 2) I could do so anonymously. If they asked for a voice vote, I most likely wouldn't have voted either way, but I sure wouldn't say "No." But this way, I can push a button and no one is the wiser.

I believe that on votes like this, where there will be an overwhelming affirmative vote, they should do away with electronic voting and simply have a voice vote. Then no one would vote against it.
"Pastor Butler... [is] deaf to the cries of people like me, dismissing our concerns as Satanic scenarios, denouncing our faith and our very existence."--Charles Austin

prsauer

The resolution begins with a litany of decrease across all of the church work vocations in significant numbers. I have copied the numbers from the resolution:
Enrollment statistics from 2004 to 2018 demonstrate a decrease in students enrolled in our Concordia University church worker programs:
• Pre-seminary (-59%)
• Lutheran Teacher (-61%)
• Director of Christian Education (-56%)
• Director of Christian Outreach (-71%)
• Deaconess (-43%) (numbers do not include seminary deaconess program enrollment)
• Lay Ministry (-95%)
• Director of Parish Music (-47%)
• Director of Family Life (-65%)

Enrollment statistics from 2004 to 2018 demonstrate a decrease in men enrolled in our two seminaries:
• Master of Divinity (MDiv) Concordia Seminary (CSL) (-61%); Concordia Theological Seminary (CTSFW) (-44%)
• Combined MDiv loss (-55%)
• CSL total loss including Alternate Route (AR) and non-residential enrollments (-34%)
• CTSFW total loss including AR and non-residential enrollments (-44%)
• Combined total loss including AR and non-residential enrollments (-38%)

Fifty percent of all active ordained pastors are over 55 years old; and with current enrollment trends into 1 the seminary and active pastor retirement trends, the active pastor population in the LCMS could decrease from 6,000 to 2 3,000 active pastors in the next 15 years;

Not good numbers but without parish revitalization it is going to be a challenge.

This resolution commits synod to 125,000 along with 125,000 from Schwan money to try and find solutions to the church worker shortage. It is perhaps an oversimplification but for half the money I will propose:  "It is hard to recruit deaconesses, or teachers, or DCEs, Pastors, or other church workers when they won't get work with a livable wage when they complete their studies." Build viable parishes and the workers will follow. I am tempted to propose a Jesuit model is what we need most at this point in time - fewer, better men.

Amendment is proposed to create a dashboard to track best practices in partnership with the district.

Amendment fails and back to the original motion.
Motion to close debate passes with 70% of the vote and the resolution passes with 94% of the vote.

prsauer

Agreed
Quote from: jebutler on July 21, 2019, 04:15:26 PM
Quote from: prsauer on July 21, 2019, 03:50:46 PM
98% of people give thanks for Ministry in Latin America and the Caribbean.  Not sure how you oppose this but there you go...

How do you oppose this?

I can only speak for myself at the last convention. I would vote agains this for two reasons: 1) I dislike the idea of voting on resolutions to "give thanks" (I would rather it say "all stand and sing  the doxology or some such) and 2) I could do so anonymously. If they asked for a voice vote, I most likely wouldn't have voted either way, but I sure wouldn't say "No." But this way, I can push a button and no one is the wiser.

I believe that on votes like this, where there will be an overwhelming affirmative vote, they should do away with electronic voting and simply have a voice vote. Then no one would vote against it.

prsauer

Had a conversation with the newly elected 6th Vice-President Ben Ball so missed the outcome here. I am assuming that another one of these "Thank resolutions" passed with some 97-98% of the vote.

prsauer

I should also add that while like pastor Butler, I find the thank resolutions somewhat tedious, I do believe that there is value in keeping those issues and ministries before the convention. Voice votes would certainly be the way to go.

This resolution is seeking to affirm residential seminary education as the preferred option. This is going to generate some discussion as there is a sizable population that has grown accustomed to the alternative options in the 30 years since Wichita. There is a divide between those who believe that residential seminary adds something unique to pastoral preparation and those who favor alternative routes as better meeting the changing needs of the church and society.

While debate rages on the ALPB headquarters made the move to the electrical outlet which is inconveniently located behind a supporting column and a garbage can.

Dale Meyer and Larry Rast who as the respective heads of seminary show none of the acrimonious rivalry that their graduates often do, come together to speak in favor of this resolution and provide a fuller context for this resolution.

And we have reached orders of the day - which means that after this vote to approve the motion I am on my way. Feel free to continue the conversation without me on church and culture.



Mark Brown

Quote from: prsauer on July 21, 2019, 04:04:50 PM
Beyond the United List, there is a generational shift going on in the LCMS leadership with Lange and Ball. Old DPs did not show well in the elections. The younger pastors who did tended to be more liturgical. I don't think that the visitor is wrong. I do however wonder what this might do for the further marginalization of less liturgical churches (which tend to be larger and wealthier). Those who know me know that I serve in the von Schenk Parish and don't believe liturgy is an adiaphora. I do wonder how long this disparate poles in Missouri will be able to hold, or if anyone even cares to try and hold them together. We'll see what the next three years bring.

Quote from: prsauer on July 21, 2019, 04:26:27 PM...It is perhaps an oversimplification but for half the money I will propose:  "It is hard to recruit deaconesses, or teachers, or DCEs, Pastors, or other church workers when they won't get work with a livable wage when they complete their studies." Build viable parishes and the workers will follow. I am tempted to propose a Jesuit model is what we need most at this point in time - fewer, better men.


Wow, Pr. Sauer hits on both of the things that I tend to bang-on about around here.  Both that the divide between liturgical and non-liturgical should receive some official attention and not just be a behind the scenes strangulation, and that we need fewer better men set up in places that can actually succeed that have some vocational diversity (i.e. please give me enough to call a deaconess.)  Too bad those are not actual resolutions being debated!



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