Author Topic: Presidents Of Concordia Seminary, St. Louis  (Read 34514 times)

RevG

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Re: Presidents Of Concordia Seminary, St. Louis
« Reply #285 on: August 30, 2019, 03:01:22 PM »
The video explains why the Missouri Synod doesn't offer the sacraments daily for seminarians [even private confession is by appointment only except at certain times each month]. The celebrant at Fort Wayne must now be a parish pastor. Pastor Shoemaker [Emanuel-New Haven Indiana] did a great job but likely can't be available for daily Mass plus holy Absolution. Nearly all the faculty were ordained so even the coach was the celebrant on occasion in the early 1970s. You made your confession to a professor or dean of the chapel.

Whether it is intentional or not, there are a number of features in Missouri Synod's prevailing culture that discourage sacramental participation.

o   Obsession with closed communion.
o   Insistence on only a "congregational pastor" as celebrant when ordained are readily available (as at our schools which are setting the example for the next generation of pastors).
o   Clumsy and tedious distribution procedures.
o   Preoccupation with "forgiveness of sins" to the exclusion of "remembrance", "communion of saints", "until he comes again" & "life and salvation". Hermann Sasse's concluding chapter (This is My Body) can be very helpful here.
o   Failure to embrace the renewed liturgy (Lutheran, R. Catholic, Anglican) with its wholesome (salutary) mix of the transcendental and the imminent.

It is certainly too bad that the daily Eucharist was stamped out at the seminaries. We will reap what we sow. Little wonder that we have pastors and congregations reluctant to self identify as Lutheran.

Peace, JOHN

When I was in seminary over a decade ago I asked to have more opportunities for communion rather than just on Wednesdays.  Unfortunately, I didn't get very far, I think the faculty members I spoke with were open to it but the challenge was having regular congregational sponsorship.  Basically, it was much harder to do than it seemed it should've been.   To me it was a classic example of LCMS polity and our culture of suspicion and fear making something much more difficult than it needed to be. 

evangelical catholic

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Re: Presidents Of Concordia Seminary, St. Louis
« Reply #286 on: August 30, 2019, 03:46:25 PM »
The video explains why the Missouri Synod doesn't offer the sacraments daily for seminarians [even private confession is by appointment only except at certain times each month]. The celebrant at Fort Wayne must now be a parish pastor. Pastor Shoemaker [Emanuel-New Haven Indiana] did a great job but likely can't be available for daily Mass plus holy Absolution. Nearly all the faculty were ordained so even the coach was the celebrant on occasion in the early 1970s. You made your confession to a professor or dean of the chapel.

Whether it is intentional or not, there are a number of features in Missouri Synod's prevailing culture that discourage sacramental participation.

o   Obsession with closed communion.
o   Insistence on only a "congregational pastor" as celebrant when ordained are readily available (as at our schools which are setting the example for the next generation of pastors).
o   Clumsy and tedious distribution procedures.
o   Preoccupation with "forgiveness of sins" to the exclusion of "remembrance", "communion of saints", "until he comes again" & "life and salvation". Hermann Sasse's concluding chapter (This is My Body) can be very helpful here.
o   Failure to embrace the renewed liturgy (Lutheran, R. Catholic, Anglican) with its wholesome (salutary) mix of the transcendental and the imminent.

It is certainly too bad that the daily Eucharist was stamped out at the seminaries. We will reap what we sow. Little wonder that we have pastors and congregations reluctant to self identify as Lutheran.

Peace, JOHN

I'm literally "old school" Missouri synod where "catholic" parishes could be found in metro regions like Trinity-Palo Alto [some students from Calfornia Concordia College would attend though Father Lang ["Ceremony and Celebration"] had already retired. Lots of kneeling/ bowing and sometimes incense. But the importance of weekly holy Communion was well established/ widespread back in the 1960s/'70s regardless of the height of the elevation.

I don't know of an ELCA parish that doesn't celebrate the Eucharist each week.


Steven W Bohler

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Re: Presidents Of Concordia Seminary, St. Louis
« Reply #287 on: August 30, 2019, 05:54:48 PM »

Has LCMS signed JDDJ?


No, we prefer to ignore it.    :)

Peace, JOHN

Not really true.  I believe the synod issued any number of statements about it down through the years.  I know seminary professors wrote/presented about it.  Our Crookston Circuit hosted a day-long free conference on it, with pro/con format (we tried to get an ELCA pastor -- or even the bishop -- to come but they refused; we ended up contacting the local Roman Catholic bishop and he had one of his priests present the "pro" side).  We have talked about it in Bible class several times.

The "synod" as such has not made any statement. When I asked Sam Nafzger about that, he said they only thing would be that joint faculty statement. Good to know that someone else has taken local initiative; kudos to your circuit.

Peace, JOHN

The joint statement you mention was a report by the synodical Commission on Theology and Church Relations, prepared at the request of the synodical president.  Convention resolutions have also addressed the JDDJ through the years.  Those are synodical statements, I would contend.

mariemeyer

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Re: Presidents Of Concordia Seminary, St. Louis
« Reply #288 on: August 31, 2019, 12:52:28 PM »
Few people know that John Damm's vicarage assignment was to teach year 3rd and 4th grade students at St. Matthew, Manhattan. As one of his 4th grade students I learned how to read the Bible, appreciate the liturgy, ponder the meeting of hymns and the importance of memorizing the Catechism.To this day I treasure my picture of Teacher Damm, in a clerical suit, turning jump rope for 4th grade girls. 

Several members of our class and attended the June 1951 ordination of our beloved teacher, John Damm. 

In keeping with the custom of my parents, Louise and Herman Otten Sr., St Matthew vicars were invited to dinner every Tuesday evening. When my dad asked teacher Damm why he, such a gifted man, was assigned to teach 3rd and 4th grade students for his vicarage, teacher Damm indicated he asked for an opportunity to advance his interest in education.  His down to earth humility and ability to relate with persons of all ages was just one of his many gifts.

Four years ago Bill and I visited with Pastor John Damm at the Mt. Vernon Wartburg Home.  The time of laughter recalling memories of St. Matthew and the times we shared in subsequent years ended with Bill thanking God for the life of John Damm and his many contribution to the Church Catholic.

Sadly, the Lutheran Church- Missouri Synod failed to recognize the many talents God gave John Damm.
Marie         

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Re: Presidents Of Concordia Seminary, St. Louis
« Reply #289 on: August 31, 2019, 02:08:11 PM »
Few people know that John Damm's vicarage assignment was to teach year 3rd and 4th grade students at St. Matthew, Manhattan. As one of his 4th grade students I learned how to read the Bible, appreciate the liturgy, ponder the meeting of hymns and the importance of memorizing the Catechism.To this day I treasure my picture of Teacher Damm, in a clerical suit, turning jump rope for 4th grade girls. 

Several members of our class and attended the June 1951 ordination of our beloved teacher, John Damm. 

In keeping with the custom of my parents, Louise and Herman Otten Sr., St Matthew vicars were invited to dinner every Tuesday evening. When my dad asked teacher Damm why he, such a gifted man, was assigned to teach 3rd and 4th grade students for his vicarage, teacher Damm indicated he asked for an opportunity to advance his interest in education.  His down to earth humility and ability to relate with persons of all ages was just one of his many gifts.

Four years ago Bill and I visited with Pastor John Damm at the Mt. Vernon Wartburg Home.  The time of laughter recalling memories of St. Matthew and the times we shared in subsequent years ended with Bill thanking God for the life of John Damm and his many contribution to the Church Catholic.

Sadly, the Lutheran Church- Missouri Synod failed to recognize the many talents God gave John Damm.
Marie         

Just returned from the funeral Eucharist for Pastor Herb Kern, eldest statesman pastor of the Atlantic District who died at 102 years of age, so an "older brother" of John Damm in this part of the world when New Jersey and New England were knit together with the eastern half of NY State in one district. 

Certainly both men brought grace and peace in Jesus to thousands, Herb predominantly on Long Island with beloved wife Alma, and John at the seminary and far beyond.  Herb assisted Ozzie Hoffmann with thoughts and directions when Ozzie was Lutheran Hour speaker, so all linked are in our evangelical and catholic memory, Herb as an evangelist-pastor of the first level, and John as a catholic teacher and mentor; both rest in peace with all the saints in light perpetual.

Dave Benke

Charles Austin

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Re: Presidents Of Concordia Seminary, St. Louis
« Reply #290 on: August 31, 2019, 02:41:59 PM »
John Damm invited me to affiliate with Saint peters in Manhattan, when I was working in New York City. Sometimes they needed an extra person to do the mass at noon or 6 PM and to assist on some Sundays. The Assemblies At noon or six were interesting collections of people. At times some of the “street people” would be there, alongside some corporate executives, musicians, theater people, occasional tourists and actual members of Saint Peters.
It was always a very traditional, very “Lutheran” liturgy (In what some would call the “high church” style), and we would make it clear in opening welcome, in the homily, and in other ways that we were Lutheran.
When I left work in Manhattan to take a parish call in New jersey, John Damm agreed to come and preach at my installation. He was a great man for a great parish.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Oh, my. How close we were to a situation where many people with guns could’ve killed many members of Congress. The possible result? Martial law and/or Civil War. Thank God some people are still coming forward to tell the truth.

evangelical catholic

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Re: Presidents Of Concordia Seminary, St. Louis
« Reply #291 on: September 01, 2019, 01:13:38 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj7pRDReusA

Going back to this video of the Divine service at Concordia seminary. The mass begins at the baptismal font. Confession/ Absolution flows from Baptism. The font is often placed near the altar in Lutheran churches. In addition, at St Matthews-Glendale, there is a holy water font in the narthex. Back to Kramer chapel, the processional crucifix leads the ministers into the church; worshippers bow to the cross. Pastor Shoemaker and assistant approach the altar and stay there for the entire service of the Word. That is how the service was done in my childhood; pastor at the altar, moving the missal from the epistle to the gospel side. The seminary has another crucifix attached to the pulpit drawing our consistent attention to the cross. I noticed the beautiful altar crucifix is new since I was a student. Luther's 7 characteristics of the Church include the "possession of the sacred cross".

Getting back to fonts. At St Peter-St Paul church in Eisleben [where Luther was baptized] a new deep baptismal font is located in the chancel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOO8Mls6dTk

Dave Benke

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Re: Presidents Of Concordia Seminary, St. Louis
« Reply #292 on: September 01, 2019, 01:35:40 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj7pRDReusA

Going back to this video of the Divine service at Concordia seminary. The mass begins at the baptismal font. Confession/ Absolution flows from Baptism. The font is often placed near the altar in Lutheran churches. In addition, at St Matthews-Glendale, there is a holy water font in the narthex. Back to Kramer chapel, the processional crucifix leads the ministers into the church; worshippers bow to the cross. Pastor Shoemaker and assistant approach the altar and stay there for the entire service of the Word. That is how the service was done in my childhood; pastor at the altar, moving the missal from the epistle to the gospel side. The seminary has another crucifix attached to the pulpit drawing our consistent attention to the cross. I noticed the beautiful altar crucifix is new since I was a student. Luther's 7 characteristics of the Church include the "possession of the sacred cross".

Getting back to fonts. At St Peter-St Paul church in Eisleben [where Luther was baptized] a new deep baptismal font is located in the chancel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOO8Mls6dTk

Wow - that deep baptismal font is great!  The song in the video, written by Enya - Time after Time - is for me absolutely a remembrance of the days after September 11, 2001, when then-Bishop Bouman and I spoke of being baptized for that moment, and of our hearts being broken open, all of which connects to the font.

Dave Benke

Chuck

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Re: Presidents Of Concordia Seminary, St. Louis
« Reply #293 on: September 01, 2019, 04:34:42 PM »
The song in the video, written by Enya - Time after Time -
Dave Benke
Minor nitpicking: Sung by Enya, written by Cyndi Lauper.
Chuck Ruthroff

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evangelical catholic

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Re: Presidents Of Concordia Seminary, St. Louis
« Reply #294 on: September 01, 2019, 05:08:19 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj7pRDReusA

Going back to this video of the Divine service at Concordia seminary. The mass begins at the baptismal font. Confession/ Absolution flows from Baptism. The font is often placed near the altar in Lutheran churches. In addition, at St Matthews-Glendale, there is a holy water font in the narthex. Back to Kramer chapel, the processional crucifix leads the ministers into the church; worshippers bow to the cross. Pastor Shoemaker and assistant approach the altar and stay there for the entire service of the Word. That is how the service was done in my childhood; pastor at the altar, moving the missal from the epistle to the gospel side. The seminary has another crucifix attached to the pulpit drawing our consistent attention to the cross. I noticed the beautiful altar crucifix is new since I was a student. Luther's 7 characteristics of the Church include the "possession of the sacred cross".

Getting back to fonts. At St Peter-St Paul church in Eisleben [where Luther was baptized] a new deep baptismal font is located in the chancel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOO8Mls6dTk

Wow - that deep baptismal font is great!  The song in the video, written by Enya - Time after Time - is for me absolutely a remembrance of the days after September 11, 2001, when then-Bishop Bouman and I spoke of being baptized for that moment, and of our hearts being broken open, all of which connects to the font.

Dave Benke

"If you're lost, you can look and you will find me
Time after time
If you fall, I will catch you, I will be waiting
Time after time"

You better look carefully or fall into the baptismal pool at Luther's birth parish [surrounded with rope when not in use]. Catholics are doing full emersion baptisms where the priest is also drenched in the cool sacramental waters. Glad to see Valpo's dean of the chapel end the Mass with asperges [even outside Eastertide]. The symbolism of our spiritual life beginning/ sustaining in holy water.

Has anyone been to the Luther historic sites? Andreaskirche is where he preached his last sermon, I understand.



Mike in Pennsylvania

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Re: Presidents Of Concordia Seminary, St. Louis
« Reply #295 on: September 01, 2019, 08:48:42 PM »
Has anyone been to the Luther historic sites? Andreaskirche is where he preached his last sermon, I understand.



[/quote]

You are correct.  I was at Eisleben and Wittenberg in 2015.
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Dave Benke

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Re: Presidents Of Concordia Seminary, St. Louis
« Reply #296 on: September 01, 2019, 09:00:12 PM »
The song in the video, written by Enya - Time after Time -
Dave Benke
Minor nitpicking: Sung by Enya, written by Cyndi Lauper.
Yes - Cyndi Lauper, Queens homegirls who grew up right next to us in Ozone Park.

Dave Benke

Charles Austin

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Re: Presidents Of Concordia Seminary, St. Louis
« Reply #297 on: September 01, 2019, 09:20:20 PM »
Been to the Luther sites. Stood in the pulpit from which he preached his last sermon. Did a writing gig that gave me two weeks in Wittenberg, Erfurt, Eisleben, and Bach's Leipzig.
On other trips - Berlin, Munich, Garmisch-Partenkirchen, Stuttgart, Dusseldorf, Paderborn, and a few other places.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Oh, my. How close we were to a situation where many people with guns could’ve killed many members of Congress. The possible result? Martial law and/or Civil War. Thank God some people are still coming forward to tell the truth.

David Mahsman

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Re: Presidents Of Concordia Seminary, St. Louis
« Reply #298 on: September 01, 2019, 11:44:09 PM »
Spent seven years working in Wittenberg.  8)

Steven W Bohler

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Re: Presidents Of Concordia Seminary, St. Louis
« Reply #299 on: September 02, 2019, 10:56:47 AM »
I grew up about an hour-and-a-half from Wittenberg.  Have driven through (or past) it like a hundred times.  Wittenberg, Wisconsin that is.  :)