Author Topic: LCMS Election  (Read 39914 times)

Charles Austin

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Re: LCMS Election
« Reply #240 on: June 23, 2019, 06:28:58 PM »
And if I tried to say, I was there, but not as a participant. A few days after the walk out I was in St. Louis, talking to people on all sides.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, Nw York and New Jersey. LCA and LWF staff. Former journalist. Now retired, living in Minneapolis. Preaching and presiding for Episcopalians next Sunday.

readselerttoo

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Re: LCMS Election
« Reply #241 on: June 23, 2019, 07:13:50 PM »
George Rahn writes:
Please, Pr. Austin, refrain from your poor judgments and limited views which come across as what-it-is regarding Seminex.  You weren't there.
I comment
in a way, I was there. Working for the news bureau for the Lutheran Council in the USA, the cooperative agency of theALC, LCA and Missouri. I knew most of the people on all sides of that controversy, and wrote extensively about it.

Uh...not the same.  Nice try.  My comments remain valid


And you have stated that you weren't there during the walkout, either.


We are talking past each other.  My reason for matriculation at Seminex had nothing to do with the walk-out.


You criticized Charles as not being able to know what happened at the walkout because he wasn't there. You stated that you went to Seminex later in its existence. Since, like Charles, you weren't part of the walkout, we shouldn't expect you to understand it as well as my Concordia classmates who actually walked out and began Seminex.


Neither you nor Pr. Austin matriculated at Seminex.  Again my issue was not about the walk-out.  Are we reading the same posts?  Ack!

readselerttoo

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Re: LCMS Election
« Reply #242 on: June 23, 2019, 07:26:08 PM »
And if I tried to say, I was there, but not as a participant. A few days after the walk out I was in St. Louis, talking to people on all sides.

Good for you.  That has no meaning for me.  You never lived and studied at Seminex so your opinions have no basis.  Quit trying to have us believe you knew what was going on.  Seminex was akin to Bonhoeffer’s seminary in Pommern and continues to have significant value for those of us in the Crossings community.  The walk-out was but an icon for something more in-depth.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: LCMS Election
« Reply #243 on: June 23, 2019, 07:35:23 PM »
George Rahn writes:
Please, Pr. Austin, refrain from your poor judgments and limited views which come across as what-it-is regarding Seminex.  You weren't there.
I comment
in a way, I was there. Working for the news bureau for the Lutheran Council in the USA, the cooperative agency of theALC, LCA and Missouri. I knew most of the people on all sides of that controversy, and wrote extensively about it.

Uh...not the same.  Nice try.  My comments remain valid


And you have stated that you weren't there during the walkout, either.


We are talking past each other.  My reason for matriculation at Seminex had nothing to do with the walk-out.


You criticized Charles as not being able to know what happened at the walkout because he wasn't there. You stated that you went to Seminex later in its existence. Since, like Charles, you weren't part of the walkout, we shouldn't expect you to understand it as well as my Concordia classmates who actually walked out and began Seminex.


Neither you nor Pr. Austin matriculated at Seminex.  Again my issue was not about the walk-out.  Are we reading the same posts?  Ack!


This thread started with talking about the walkout - folks who believed that the church had left them so they had to leave. (An argument that folks have used for leaving the ELCA.) The discussion was not about what Seminex became; nor what good things that the AELC brought to the ELCA.
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Tom Eckstein

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Re: LCMS Election
« Reply #244 on: June 23, 2019, 07:45:33 PM »
Pastor Bohler writes:
So, the Missouri Synod churches/people you like are the ones that left for your church body.  Doesn't that kind of re-inforce what Rev. Fienen said?
I comment:
Actually, they didn't. They left the LCMS for the ALC, during the LCMS schism of the early 1970s. And when they left the LCMS they did not suddenly leave their LCMS-ness behind. Some of it remained, even decades later.
I was trying, trying to emphasize the benefits I believe they had received during their years in the LCMS and the good sense of "church" that I experienced as their pastor because of their LCMS heritage.
But carry on. My efforts to commend the LCMS here always seem to fail.

Because you were not commending the LCMS but FORMER LCMS churches/people.  You know, those who rejected the LCMS for your church body.  So, you like those who agree with you and disagree with the LCMS.  Sort of like if I said I like Democrats but only those who who purposefully rejected the Democrat party and are now registered Republicans.


I'm sure that many, if not most of them, like many former ELCA folks argue that they didn't leave the LCMS/ELCA; but that their church left them. Attending and graduating from Concordia, Portland, in 1971, the LCMS of that time, was a different church body than in 1981, e.g., fellowship with the ALC (my church body). About half of my pre-sem classmates (all LCMS) were part of the walkout and ended up ELCA. I don't imagine that any of those who walked out changed what they believed; but they saw a change in the LCMS that they didn't like.

I was not part of the walk-out but I did attend Seminex in its later years.  I came from the ALC into the AELC and then Seminex.  The ELCA today is nothing like the ALC or AELC of that time.  The ideology in the ELCA today has no comparison to then.  ELCA today is vastly different and imo contrary to the confessional environment of what was the German ALC and AELC of that time.  In fact I wonder if the ELCA today could only give lip-service to our confessional documents because they still stand within its constitution.  There is no workable knowledge of the Book of Concord today at least in the ELCA SW Texas Synod.  That is why I left the ELCA for the LCMS.  The Texas district has picked up where Seminex left off in my case.  This is esp. true for the congregation at which I attend: Shepherd of the Hills, San Antonio.

I was not part of the walk-off, either.  I had graduated prior to it.  Even then, those were heady days, marked by grace leading into an unknown future.  The theology and preaching from those professors were/are remarkable.  As I sometimes worship in ELCA congregations these days in San Diego, I find much of what I remember from that time:  solid liturgy and preaching.  I'm sorry your experience with the ELCA in south Texas was not the same.  The Texas District LCMS has tended to be a very closely divided district in my opinion:  half missional and half even more conservative than Texas itself.

BTW do you remember Dr Betram's tag line from the confessions in Latin?  soc et tuum

Yes. Of course. Hilarious!  Good old days and thanks for the memory tweak.   ;D.... 8)

Shepherd follows in the good strain coming out of Concordia/STL these days.  Solidly missional, biblical as well as confessional.  I have found a home.

To J.L Precup:  Do you know Keith Fox and Dan Miller?  They had graduated from Concordia/STL prior to the walk-out as well.  They also attend SOH.

George, I've visited "Shepherd" in San Antonio several times in the past.  My wife's family lives there.  But I haven't been to San Antonio for almost 8 years.  My memories of "Shepherd" are very positive!
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 07:50:38 PM by Tom Eckstein »
I'm an LCMS Pastor in Jamestown, ND.

Charles Austin

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Re: LCMS Election
« Reply #245 on: June 23, 2019, 07:56:07 PM »
George Rahn writes:
Good for you.  That has no meaning for me.  You never lived and studied at Seminex so your opinions have no basis.
I comment:
Well, I guess that settles it. Not.

George Rahn:
Quit trying to have us believe you knew what was going on.  Seminex was akin to Bonhoeffer’s seminary in Pommern and continues to have significant value for those of us in the Crossings community. 
Me:
I spent considerable time with people on various sides of that situation, but OK.

George Rahn:
The walk-out was but an icon for something more in-depth.
Me:
OK. But you attended Seminex, graduated (I think) and was ordained (AELC?) Then along comes the ELCA and I do not know what ups and downs your ministry experienced there. So you left. Now you are transitioning to LCMS, but not as clergy. Blessings to you. I hope it goes well for you.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, Nw York and New Jersey. LCA and LWF staff. Former journalist. Now retired, living in Minneapolis. Preaching and presiding for Episcopalians next Sunday.

readselerttoo

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Re: LCMS Election
« Reply #246 on: June 23, 2019, 08:05:48 PM »
Pastor Bohler writes:
So, the Missouri Synod churches/people you like are the ones that left for your church body.  Doesn't that kind of re-inforce what Rev. Fienen said?
I comment:
Actually, they didn't. They left the LCMS for the ALC, during the LCMS schism of the early 1970s. And when they left the LCMS they did not suddenly leave their LCMS-ness behind. Some of it remained, even decades later.
I was trying, trying to emphasize the benefits I believe they had received during their years in the LCMS and the good sense of "church" that I experienced as their pastor because of their LCMS heritage.
But carry on. My efforts to commend the LCMS here always seem to fail.

Because you were not commending the LCMS but FORMER LCMS churches/people.  You know, those who rejected the LCMS for your church body.  So, you like those who agree with you and disagree with the LCMS.  Sort of like if I said I like Democrats but only those who who purposefully rejected the Democrat party and are now registered Republicans.


I'm sure that many, if not most of them, like many former ELCA folks argue that they didn't leave the LCMS/ELCA; but that their church left them. Attending and graduating from Concordia, Portland, in 1971, the LCMS of that time, was a different church body than in 1981, e.g., fellowship with the ALC (my church body). About half of my pre-sem classmates (all LCMS) were part of the walkout and ended up ELCA. I don't imagine that any of those who walked out changed what they believed; but they saw a change in the LCMS that they didn't like.

I was not part of the walk-out but I did attend Seminex in its later years.  I came from the ALC into the AELC and then Seminex.  The ELCA today is nothing like the ALC or AELC of that time.  The ideology in the ELCA today has no comparison to then.  ELCA today is vastly different and imo contrary to the confessional environment of what was the German ALC and AELC of that time.  In fact I wonder if the ELCA today could only give lip-service to our confessional documents because they still stand within its constitution.  There is no workable knowledge of the Book of Concord today at least in the ELCA SW Texas Synod.  That is why I left the ELCA for the LCMS.  The Texas district has picked up where Seminex left off in my case.  This is esp. true for the congregation at which I attend: Shepherd of the Hills, San Antonio.

I was not part of the walk-off, either.  I had graduated prior to it.  Even then, those were heady days, marked by grace leading into an unknown future.  The theology and preaching from those professors were/are remarkable.  As I sometimes worship in ELCA congregations these days in San Diego, I find much of what I remember from that time:  solid liturgy and preaching.  I'm sorry your experience with the ELCA in south Texas was not the same.  The Texas District LCMS has tended to be a very closely divided district in my opinion:  half missional and half even more conservative than Texas itself.

BTW do you remember Dr Betram's tag line from the confessions in Latin?  soc et tuum

Yes. Of course. Hilarious!  Good old days and thanks for the memory tweak.   ;D.... 8)

Shepherd follows in the good strain coming out of Concordia/STL these days.  Solidly missional, biblical as well as confessional.  I have found a home.

To J.L Precup:  Do you know Keith Fox and Dan Miller?  They had graduated from Concordia/STL prior to the walk-out as well.  They also attend SOH.

George, I've visited "Shepherd" in San Antonio several times in the past.  My wife's family lives there.  But I haven't been to San Antonio for almost 8 years.  My memories of "Shepherd" are very positive!

 :)   Shepherd seems to embrace many aspects of what Seminex meant for me:   Christologically focused and missional minded. 
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 08:17:11 PM by George Rahn »

readselerttoo

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Re: LCMS Election
« Reply #247 on: June 23, 2019, 08:12:08 PM »
George Rahn writes:
Good for you.  That has no meaning for me.  You never lived and studied at Seminex so your opinions have no basis.
I comment:
Well, I guess that settles it. Not.

George Rahn:
Quit trying to have us believe you knew what was going on.  Seminex was akin to Bonhoeffer’s seminary in Pommern and continues to have significant value for those of us in the Crossings community. 
Me:
I spent considerable time with people on various sides of that situation, but OK.

George Rahn:
The walk-out was but an icon for something more in-depth.
Me:
OK. But you attended Seminex, graduated (I think) and was ordained (AELC?) Then along comes the ELCA and I do not know what ups and downs your ministry experienced there. So you left. Now you are transitioning to LCMS, but not as clergy. Blessings to you. I hope it goes well for you.

Thank you, sincerely.  I have had enough of the institutionalized version of a type of American Lutheranism in the ELCA. 
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 08:18:47 PM by George Rahn »

peter_speckhard

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Re: LCMS Election
« Reply #248 on: June 24, 2019, 09:06:03 PM »
Just cast my vote. Voted for Harrison. If he wins by one vote I'm sure future generations will be spellbound by the various dissertations written about how a campaign postcard changed the outcome of the election and the course of history.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 08:50:55 AM by peter_speckhard »

Dave Benke

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Re: LCMS Election
« Reply #249 on: June 25, 2019, 08:17:20 AM »
Just cast my vote. Voted for Harrison. If he wins by one vote I'm sure future generations will be spellbound by the various dissertations written about how a campaign postcard changed the outcome of the election and the course of history.

Make that a thousand. 

Dave Benke
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 08:51:08 AM by peter_speckhard »

peter_speckhard

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Re: LCMS Election
« Reply #250 on: June 25, 2019, 09:07:45 AM »
Just cast my vote. Voted for Harrison. If he wins by one vote I'm sure future generations will be spellbound by the various dissertations written about how a campaign postcard changed the outcome of the election and the course of history.

Make that a thousand. 

Dave Benke
Corrected a typo in my post from an to a.

Seeing as the postcards were not votes and not not even about votes, but rather reminders of the nominating process and looming deadlines (and he was going to be on the ballot either way), and seeing as the post cards didn't urge anyone to do anything wrong but rather simply to participate in the duly enacted process, the sole gripe seems to be that the candidate only sent them to people he thought likely to support him. This is what will make the future dissertations so mesmerizing. People will stand amazed that anyone could make a mountain out of such a not-even-a-molehill and keep up the pretense in all seriousness that this event, this mailing, was the deal-breaker. The story will not be how a post card changed the election, but about the lengths people in the LCMS will go to in order to concoct a narrative in which the people they disagreed with were guilty of wrong-doing and immoral behavior, not just guilty of disagreeing.

Dave Benke

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Re: LCMS Election
« Reply #251 on: June 25, 2019, 09:17:14 AM »
Just cast my vote. Voted for Harrison. If he wins by one vote I'm sure future generations will be spellbound by the various dissertations written about how a campaign postcard changed the outcome of the election and the course of history.

Make that a thousand. 

Dave Benke
Corrected a typo in my post from an to a.

Seeing as the postcards were not votes and not not even about votes, but rather reminders of the nominating process and looming deadlines (and he was going to be on the ballot either way), and seeing as the post cards didn't urge anyone to do anything wrong but rather simply to participate in the duly enacted process, the sole gripe seems to be that the candidate only sent them to people he thought likely to support him. This is what will make the future dissertations so mesmerizing. People will stand amazed that anyone could make a mountain out of such a not-even-a-molehill and keep up the pretense in all seriousness that this event, this mailing, was the deal-breaker. The story will not be how a post card changed the election, but about the lengths people in the LCMS will go to in order to concoct a narrative in which the people they disagreed with were guilty of wrong-doing and immoral behavior, not just guilty of disagreeing.

Thanks for re-articulating your narrative, Peter.  Doggedly determined throughout.

Dave Benke

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Re: LCMS Election
« Reply #252 on: June 25, 2019, 09:27:17 AM »
Just cast my vote. Voted for Harrison. If he wins by one vote I'm sure future generations will be spellbound by the various dissertations written about how a campaign postcard changed the outcome of the election and the course of history.

Make that a thousand. 

Dave Benke

Do we know how many postcards were sent?  I asked earlier but I do not recall seeing an answer.  You say a thousand, but on what basis do you say that?  And if it were a thousand, and they went only to Harrison supporters who had not yet nominated anyone (as you and others seem to claim), then doesn't that tell you something about how many Harrison supporters there are?  And do you think they would not have voted for him had they not received one-of-a-thousand postcards?  As Rev. Speckhard says, this is an attempt to make a mountain out of a molehill.

David Garner

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Re: LCMS Election
« Reply #253 on: June 25, 2019, 09:28:57 AM »
Do we see the election results (whether a President is elected or whether there will be another election) today or tomorrow?

I've seen both, so I'm not sure which is correct.  I'm assuming voting goes maybe through midnight and it will be tomorrow.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

Pr. Luke Zimmerman

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Re: LCMS Election
« Reply #254 on: June 25, 2019, 10:37:30 AM »
Do we see the election results (whether a President is elected or whether there will be another election) today or tomorrow?

I've seen both, so I'm not sure which is correct.  I'm assuming voting goes maybe through midnight and it will be tomorrow.

David, the instructions to electors included the following, which would seem to answer your question:

Quote
All votes must be submitted by 11:59 pm (Central time) on June 25, 2019.

If no candidate receives a majority of the votes cast, the two candidates receiving the highest number of votes shall be retained on the ballot, and a second vote shall be taken in the same manner. If a second vote is necessary, the LCMS.org site will publish a notice on June 27, 2019. The actual election will take place starting on June 29th. You will receive an email notice when the site is open and you may cast your vote.
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