The fate of the nation (A topic as serious as female lectors or gay clergy)

[Brian Stoffregen]

If the popular vote is an indication, he has a smaller percentage of popular support than any other president has had.

Well, as long as one ignores Grover Cleveland (2nd term), James Buchanan, Richard Nixon, Bill Clinton, Woodrow Wilson, Abraham Lincoln, and John Quincy Adams...

I was referring to the number of more popular votes that the losing presidential candidate received.


Hayes defeated Tilden 185 to 184 electoral college votes but 254,000 fewer popular votes.
Harrison defeated Cleveland 233 to 168 electoral college, but 91,000 fewer popular votes.
Bush defeated Gore 271 to 266 electoral college, but 500,000 fewer popular votes.
Trump defeated Clinton 304 to 227 electoral college, but 2.8 million fewer popular votes.


The popular vote difference with Trump's victory is far greater than any other time in American history.

[Brian Stoffregen]

When this president pushes his agendas, he and his supporters need to recognize that he probably does not have a majority of the people behind him. If the popular vote is an indication, he has a smaller percentage of popular support than any other president has had.

This does bring up an interesting point of leadership that I think our founding fathers also had in mind when they created the EC.  I would hope that whoever is leading the country would lead not by consulting polls but by looking at all the data at hand and making an informed and responsible decision - even if it went contrary to where current polls claimed people were leaning.  How we determine where the "majority of people" are leaning on a given issue on any given day is not sufficiently reliable on which to base major decisions that affect national security and welfare.  Our leaders often know more than we do and are not always in a position to reveal what they know.

Originally, the person who received the second highest electoral college votes became Vice President. They could be from different parties with different philosophies. This was changed with the 12th amendment. This meant that there could be checks and balances within the executive branch as the president and vice-president discussed issues.

[James S. Rustad]

Originally, the person who received the second highest electoral college votes became Vice President. They could be from different parties with different philosophies. This was changed with the 12th amendment. This meant that there could be checks and balances within the executive branch as the president and vice-president discussed issues.

Except that the president could totally ignore the veep (and did).  That's one reason it was changed.  'Course, the veep still has no real authority and the president doesn't listen to him.

[James S. Rustad]

The popular vote difference with Trump's victory is far greater than any other time in American history.

These are the winners of Presidential elections where the electoral and popular vote outcomes were different:

John Quincy Adams (winner chosen by House) - lost popular vote by 10.44% to Andrew Jackson
Rutherford Hayes - lost popular vote by 3.00% to Samuel Tilden
Donald Trump - lost popular vote by 2.09% to Hillary Clinton
Benjamin Harrison - lost popular vote by 0.83% to Grover Cleveland
George W. Bush - lost popular vote by 0.51% to Al Gore

Unusual?  Sure.  Unheard of?  Nope.

(Percentages are more appropriate for this comparison as the population and turnout vary. However, all of these were fairly high turnouts by modern standards.)

[Coach-Rev]

If the popular vote is an indication, he has a smaller percentage of popular support than any other president has had.

Well, as long as one ignores Grover Cleveland (2nd term), James Buchanan, Richard Nixon, Bill Clinton, Woodrow Wilson, Abraham Lincoln, and John Quincy Adams...

I was referring to the number of more popular votes that the losing presidential candidate received.


Hayes defeated Tilden 185 to 184 electoral college votes but 254,000 fewer popular votes.
Harrison defeated Cleveland 233 to 168 electoral college, but 91,000 fewer popular votes.
Bush defeated Gore 271 to 266 electoral college, but 500,000 fewer popular votes.
Trump defeated Clinton 304 to 227 electoral college, but 2.8 million fewer popular votes.


The popular vote difference with Trump's victory is far greater than any other time in American history.

And so is the population of the United States, especially in the big 4 urban centers that can swing every election.

[Steven Tibbetts]

If the popular vote is an indication, he has a smaller percentage of popular support than any other president has had.

Well, as long as one ignores Grover Cleveland (2nd term), James Buchanan, Richard Nixon, Bill Clinton, Woodrow Wilson, Abraham Lincoln, and John Quincy Adams...

I was referring to the number of more popular votes that the losing presidential candidate received.

Since you wrote "smaller percentage," I presumed you meant "smaller percentage" -- which each of those elected Presidents had.  You really ought to try saying what you mean.  And if you don't know what you mean, perhaps you ought not say anything.

[Charles Austin]

And what you mean to say, Steven, is:
You don’t like anything Brian says or how he says it.
You believe he is always wrong.
Since you always believe that, maybe you don’t need to always say it.

[Coach-Rev]

Take your own advice, then, Charles, and stop the constant barrage of how you always feel about how bad/evil/moronic/stupid/lame/etc.  the current President is.   

[Charles Austin]

Pastor Cottingham writes:
Take your own advice, then, Charles, and stop the constant barrage of how you always feel about how bad/evil/moronic/stupid/lame/etc.  the current President.

I comment:
You left out “criminal.”
You left out “con man”. (I’ll include “liar” in that term.)
You left out “man who raises money to help wounded vets then spends it on himself.”
You left out abuser of women.
From today’s news:
A state judge ordered President Trump to pay $2 million in damages to nonprofit groups on Thursday after the president admitted misusing money raised by the Donald J. Trump Foundation to promote his presidential bid, pay off business debts and purchase a portrait of himself for one of his hotels.
The damage award brought an end to a protracted legal battle over the foundation, whose giving patterns and management became a flash point during Mr. Trump’s run for office in 2016. New York’s attorney general had filed suit last year accusing Mr. Trump and his family of using the foundation as an extension of his businesses and his presidential campaign.

[David Garner]

And what you mean to say, Steven, is:
You don’t like anything Brian says or how he says it.
You believe he is always wrong.
Since you always believe that, maybe you don’t need to always say it.

What he said was literally wrong though.  This isn't a matter of subjective belief or bias.

[Charles Austin]

Pastor Cottingham left out “tax cheat.”
He also left out failed businessman with numerous bankruptcies.

[Dan Fienen]

Pastor Cottingham left out “tax cheat.”
He also left out failed businessman with numerous bankruptcies.

Would you care to list his indictments for tax code violations?
Do you advocate that bankruptcy should become a criminal offense?


Or perhaps I have failed to understand that criminal conduct consists of breaking the law or doing something that Democrats disapprove of.

[Charles Austin]

Multiple bankruptcies says to me you’re not good at business.
And raising money for a charitable purpose than spending it on yourself, and having the courts discover that’s what you did and insist that you pay it back, seems to me to be breaking the law. One who breaks the law equals criminal.

[Coach-Rev]

not from a charity, and either 13 or 18k I believe was reported.  And let me see...  crickets a few years back when Obama was fined $375,000 for campaign finance violations.

Here's some bedtime reading for you Charles, as a refresher course on your oh-so-biased historical recall:  https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/01/obamas-many-scandals-abuse-government-power-worse-sex-scandals/

[peter_speckhard]

Gosh, that Trump is just awful, awful awful!!!!!

There. I saved Charles fifteen hours and five hundred future posts.