Author Topic: Recent Lutheran Theologians Who Joined RCC or EO  (Read 6733 times)

Dave Likeness

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 5270
    • View Profile
Recent Lutheran Theologians Who Joined RCC or EO
« on: January 19, 2019, 06:56:42 PM »
Many people think that the exodus from Lutheranism began after the ELCA 2009 Churchwide Assembly

However, the following three Lutheran theologians left already in the 1990's.

Sept........  1990.......Richard John Neuhaus to Roman Catholic Church
July...........1994.......Robert Louis Wilken to Roman Catholic Church
March........1998.......Jaroslav Pelikan to Eastern Orthodox Church

Could  any of you add to this list? 
Thanks for your help. 
« Last Edit: January 19, 2019, 07:46:35 PM by Dave Likeness »

Charles Austin

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 14708
    • View Profile
    • Charles is Coloring
Re: Recent Lutheran Theologians Who Joined RCC or EO
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2019, 07:33:18 PM »
A number of pastors, including some affiliated with ALPB, are now Roman Catholic.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Now in Minneapolis. One must always ponder both the value and the dangers of poking the bear. Aroused and stimulated, the bear usually shows its true self. Or it might leap to an extreme version of itself. You never know with bears.

Dave Likeness

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 5270
    • View Profile
Re: Recent Lutheran Theologians Who Joined RCC or EO
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2019, 07:50:46 PM »
March.......2016......Pastor Russell Saltzman to Roman Catholic Church


Hopefully we can come up with a few more names.  It might be noteworthy
to  compare the motives of those who left in the 1990's and and those who
left after 2009.

John_Hannah

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 5632
    • View Profile
Re: Recent Lutheran Theologians Who Joined RCC or EO
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2019, 08:42:06 PM »
March.......2016......Pastor Russell Saltzman to Roman Catholic Church


Hopefully we can come up with a few more names.  It might be noteworthy
to  compare the motives of those who left in the 1990's and and those who
left after 2009.

The more important question might be:

Why did they join Rome and Orthodoxy? Why didn't they join Presbyterian, Methodist, or Baptist?

 :)  Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

JEdwards

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 718
    • View Profile
Re: Recent Lutheran Theologians Who Joined RCC or EO
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2019, 09:12:50 PM »
Leonard Klein, ELCA to RCC, 2003. Ordained as a married man to the RC priesthood in 2006.

Michael Root, 2010.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2019, 09:41:39 PM by JEdwards »

J. Thomas Shelley

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 4232
    • View Profile
Re: Recent Lutheran Theologians Who Joined RCC or EO
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2019, 10:43:04 PM »

The more important question might be:

Why did they join Rome and Orthodoxy? Why didn't they join Presbyterian, Methodist, or Baptist?

 :)  Peace, JOHN

I can only speak for myself:

https://alpb.org/Forum/index.php?topic=5681.msg352315#msg352315

Simply put, I did not follow the "normal" pattern of the Protestant clergyman who begins reading +Athanasius, +Chrysostom, and other Patristics and becomes captivated intellectually; instead, I was taken by the heart by the 9th Ode of the Passion Canon and my head followed after.

In truth, this was a replication of the pattern which three decades earlier had led me into Lutheranism--being captivated by the beauty of the Fryxell setting of the Liturgy and positively electrified by the exuberance of LBW Setting One; and my head following after my heart.

My journey is an embodiment of the "Prayer behind the Ambon" which is one of the final post-Communion prayers of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom:

Quote
O Lord, Who blesses those who bless You and sanctifies those who put their trust in You, save Your people and bless Your inheritance. Protect the whole body of Your Church. Sanctify those who love the beauty of Your house. Glorify them in return by Your divine power, and forsake us not who have set our hope in You. Grant peace to Your world, to Your churches, to the clergy, to our civic leaders, to the armed forces, and to all Your people. For every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from You, the Father of lights. To You we give glory, thanksgiving, and worship, to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages.


« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 08:14:39 PM by J. Thomas Shelley »
Greek Orthodox Deacon -Ecumenical Patriarchate
Ordained to the Holy Diaconate Mary of Egypt Sunday A.D. 2022

Baptized, Confirmed, and Ordained United Methodist.
Served as a Lutheran Pastor October 31, 1989 - October 31, 2014.
Charter member of the first chapter of the Society of the Holy Trinity.

Richard Johnson

  • ALPB Administrator
  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 10580
  • Create in me a clean heart, O God.
    • View Profile
Re: Recent Lutheran Theologians Who Joined RCC or EO
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2019, 08:57:10 AM »
Phillip Max Johnson, received into the RCC in 2006, ordained as a married man in 2010.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

mj4

  • Guest
Re: Recent Lutheran Theologians Who Joined RCC or EO
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2019, 01:57:31 PM »
Originally appearing in The Christian Century, August 22, 2006, pp. 18-23, an interesting read referencing Lutheran converts to the Roman Catholic Church, Mickey Mattox, Bruce Marshall, and Reinhard Hütter:

https://www.religion-online.org/article/going-catholic/,
« Last Edit: January 20, 2019, 02:42:41 PM by mj4 »

RDPreus

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 1268
    • View Profile
    • Christ For Us
Re: Recent Lutheran Theologians Who Joined RCC or EO
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2019, 02:07:08 PM »
Several pastor friends of mine, including a classmate and a former vicar, have joined the EO.  A former prof at Concordia Theological Seminary in St. Catharines joined the EO.

Can someone explain why the spell check on this site puts a red line under Catharines?  St. Catharines is a town of over 130,000 people!  That's bigger than any town in North Dakota, Montana, or Wyoming.   

J. Thomas Shelley

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 4232
    • View Profile
Re: Recent Lutheran Theologians Who Joined RCC or EO
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2019, 05:12:44 PM »
David Smith, STS, Ordained Priest by the Orthodox Church in America in June 2016, serving the Chapel of the Holy Spirit Mission in Beaverton, PA.

Jay Rochelle, STS, Ordained Priest by the Ukranian Orthodox Church, serving the St Anthony of the Desert Orthodox Mission, Las Cruces, NM.
Greek Orthodox Deacon -Ecumenical Patriarchate
Ordained to the Holy Diaconate Mary of Egypt Sunday A.D. 2022

Baptized, Confirmed, and Ordained United Methodist.
Served as a Lutheran Pastor October 31, 1989 - October 31, 2014.
Charter member of the first chapter of the Society of the Holy Trinity.

Dave Likeness

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 5270
    • View Profile
Re: Recent Lutheran Theologians Who Joined RCC or EO
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2019, 07:39:08 PM »
Joined Roman Catholic Church

1. Richard J. Neuhaus (1990)
2. Robert L. Wilken (1994).........Professor at University of Virginia
3. Leonard Klein (2003)
4. Phillip M. Johnson (2006)
5. Bruce Marshall.....................Professor at St. Olaf
6. David Fagerberg...................Professor at Concordia College, Moorhead
7. Richard Hutter......................Professor at Lutheran School of Theology, Chicago
8. Mickey Mattox......................Professor at Marquette University
9. Michael Root (2010)............. Professor at Trinity Lutheran Seminary
10 Russell Saltzman (2016)

Joined Orthodox Church
1. Jaroslav Pelikan (1998)........ Professor at Yale University
2. Jay Rochelle........................Professor at Lutheran School of Theology, Chicago
3. David Smith
4. J. Thomas Shelley (2015)
5. John Fenton
« Last Edit: January 20, 2019, 08:11:45 PM by Dave Likeness »

D. Engebretson

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 4950
    • View Profile
Re: Recent Lutheran Theologians Who Joined RCC or EO
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2019, 07:48:59 PM »
One of the names I remember most in the last several years that left for the EO is Fr. John Fenton, onetime pastor of the historic Zion Lutheran Church in inner-city Detroit which he served from 1995 to 2006.  He was a graduate of Concordia Theological Seminary - Ft. Wayne (two years behind me) where he also earned the STM degree in 1999.  I believe he was on one of the committees that put together the Lutheran Service Book.  He left Michigan about 4 years ago and now lives in Whittier, CA.
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

readselerttoo

  • Guest
Re: Recent Lutheran Theologians Who Joined RCC or EO
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2019, 08:02:48 PM »
Really no need to go back to Rome...or is it to go to Rome?  The LCMS needs to stick with what it does best by its appeal to Scripture as the only regel, richter und richtschnur in its standard of measurement and to clarify why the Formula of Concord talks about the apostolic and prophetic writings of the Old and New Testament.  Here is the direct (another English translation of the German richter) conduit that conveys the wonder of the miracle of the Gospel.  As I have said before in these parts, regardless of all the dialogue with Rome, Lutherans continue to disagree with the official teaching of Rome on the doctrine (article) on sin and the imago dei.  In my years of reading both church history and theological texts, it is this along with the ancillary doctrine of justification by faith that continue to be misunderstood by Rome and even by some Lutherans.  For example one always remains a sinner even in justification.  Otherwise Christ is of no use in his redemptive activity. 

I can't imagine the ELCA agreeing with the latter.  But it is a theological center of the New Testament that sinners remain sinners even in redemption.  Otherwise the mediator-quality of Christ in justification is of no use.  And the sinner no longer has an advocate.  One is either saved in Jesus Christ fully in justification or else Christ is of no use to anyone. Jesus' cross becomes just another tragic event in history.  And sinners no longer have hope as St. Paul touched on in 1 Corinthians 15.


J. Thomas Shelley

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 4232
    • View Profile
Re: Recent Lutheran Theologians Who Joined RCC or EO
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2019, 08:20:47 PM »
One of the names I remember most in the last several years that left for the EO is Fr. John Fenton, onetime pastor of the historic Zion Lutheran Church in inner-city Detroit which he served from 1995 to 2006.  He was a graduate of Concordia Theological Seminary - Ft. Wayne (two years behind me) where he also earned the STM degree in 1999.  I believe he was on one of the committees that put together the Lutheran Service Book.  He left Michigan about 4 years ago and now lives in Whittier, CA.

Fr. Fenton is the Western Rite Vicar for the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese.
Greek Orthodox Deacon -Ecumenical Patriarchate
Ordained to the Holy Diaconate Mary of Egypt Sunday A.D. 2022

Baptized, Confirmed, and Ordained United Methodist.
Served as a Lutheran Pastor October 31, 1989 - October 31, 2014.
Charter member of the first chapter of the Society of the Holy Trinity.

Brian Stoffregen

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 44255
  • ἐγὼ δὲ λέγω ὑμῖν, ἀγαπᾶτε τοὺς ἐχθροὺς ὑμῶν
    • View Profile
Re: Recent Lutheran Theologians Who Joined RCC or EO
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2019, 12:52:45 AM »
Really no need to go back to Rome...or is it to go to Rome?  The LCMS needs to stick with what it does best by its appeal to Scripture as the only regel, richter und richtschnur in its standard of measurement and to clarify why the Formula of Concord talks about the apostolic and prophetic writings of the Old and New Testament.  Here is the direct (another English translation of the German richter) conduit that conveys the wonder of the miracle of the Gospel.  As I have said before in these parts, regardless of all the dialogue with Rome, Lutherans continue to disagree with the official teaching of Rome on the doctrine (article) on sin and the imago dei.  In my years of reading both church history and theological texts, it is this along with the ancillary doctrine of justification by faith that continue to be misunderstood by Rome and even by some Lutherans.  For example one always remains a sinner even in justification.  Otherwise Christ is of no use in his redemptive activity. 

I can't imagine the ELCA agreeing with the latter.  But it is a theological center of the New Testament that sinners remain sinners even in redemption.  Otherwise the mediator-quality of Christ in justification is of no use.  And the sinner no longer has an advocate.  One is either saved in Jesus Christ fully in justification or else Christ is of no use to anyone. Jesus' cross becomes just another tragic event in history.  And sinners no longer have hope as St. Paul touched on in 1 Corinthians 15.


Could it be that we misunderstand Rome's teaching on justification? For too long, I believe, we have let Lutherans tell us what Rome believed rather than listening to the Roman theologians explain their doctrines. (We might have been fed a skewed viewed.) Similarly, I've had members of the Roman Catholic Church ask me about our Lutheran teachings, because everything that they had been taught previously came from their priests - and, in my opinion, they presented a skewed view of Lutheranism.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]