Author Topic: Luther on Prager U  (Read 6596 times)

jebutler

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2018, 02:04:45 PM »
I have encountered the name before, but I'm not sure where. Although he is pictured on the Wartburg site clerically garbed, his name does not come up in a search of the ELCA clergy roster.

The Wartburg website identifies him as a member of the ELCA Church Council, yet he is not on the Church Council directory.

https://directory.elca.org/Pages/index.aspx/churchwide/church-council

From the Church Council Minutes of November 2017 as part of an en bloc election of people to boards:

To re-elect to the board of directors of Wartburg Theological Seminary for a six-year term ending in December 2023: The Rev. Stephen J. Cornils and the Rev. Kathryn A. Kleinhans.

The "ELCA Church Council" under his (and other) names, probably indicates that they are elected to the board by the ELCA Church Council.

I'm sure your right about that, but the Wartburg website does leave one to conjecture.

Watching the video, he simply identifies himself as being from "Wartburg Theological Seminary." The implication, I think, is that he is on the theological faculty there, or at least is somehow on the staff. But he is neither; he's merely on their Board of Directors. That troubles me. I strikes me as a bit dishonest.

Does anyone else feel that way?
These are things that we can discuss among learned and reasonable people, or even among ourselves. (Luther, SA III, paraphrased).

James_Gale

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2018, 02:12:14 PM »
I have encountered the name before, but I'm not sure where. Although he is pictured on the Wartburg site clerically garbed, his name does not come up in a search of the ELCA clergy roster.

The Wartburg website identifies him as a member of the ELCA Church Council, yet he is not on the Church Council directory.

https://directory.elca.org/Pages/index.aspx/churchwide/church-council

From the Church Council Minutes of November 2017 as part of an en bloc election of people to boards:

To re-elect to the board of directors of Wartburg Theological Seminary for a six-year term ending in December 2023: The Rev. Stephen J. Cornils and the Rev. Kathryn A. Kleinhans.

The "ELCA Church Council" under his (and other) names, probably indicates that they are elected to the board by the ELCA Church Council.

I'm sure your right about that, but the Wartburg website does leave one to conjecture.

Watching the video, he simply identifies himself as being from "Wartburg Theological Seminary." The implication, I think, is that he is on the theological faculty there, or at least is somehow on the staff. But he is neither; he's merely on their Board of Directors. That troubles me. I strikes me as a bit dishonest.

Does anyone else feel that way?


Unless the seminary gave him permission to say that, I agree.

Charles Austin

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2018, 02:20:32 PM »
Several things about this smell fishy to me. But perhaps I am just being too suspicious and cynical.
Someone call Wartburg seminary, and ask them about this video and his identification with them.  Then call the office of the ELCA secretary and determined his status on our roster.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

pearson

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2018, 02:24:19 PM »

Watching the video, he simply identifies himself as being from "Wartburg Theological Seminary." The implication, I think, is that he is on the theological faculty there, or at least is somehow on the staff. But he is neither; he's merely on their Board of Directors. That troubles me. I strikes me as a bit dishonest.

Does anyone else feel that way?


The Trustees of The University of Texas Coordinating Board, which oversees eight academic campuses and six academic health institutions, routinely identify themselves publicly as being with "The University of Texas."  In my experience, it's a higher education thing.

Tom Pearson

jebutler

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2018, 02:36:47 PM »

Someone call Wartburg seminary, and ask them about this video and his identification with them. 

Why? His picture is on their website. He is on the Board of Directors. He was appointed to that position by the ELCA Church Council. That is clearly identified. (And thanks to Prof. Pearson for noting that identifying with the school when you serve on their Board is common in higher education. That answers that question.)

Or are you saying that Wartburg is giving out misinformation and that he really isn't on their Board?

Then call the office of the ELCA secretary and determined his status on our roster.

That might be reasonable. But that is assuming their paperwork is up to date. I just saw a notification that a college/seminary classmate of mine has resigned from the Synod's roster. His church's website no longer lists him as pastor. But when I looked him up on the Synod's website, he was still listed as being on our roster and serving as pastor of his former parish. So maybe they're just slow about such things.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 02:39:03 PM by jebutler »
These are things that we can discuss among learned and reasonable people, or even among ourselves. (Luther, SA III, paraphrased).

mj4

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2018, 02:59:30 PM »

Watching the video, he simply identifies himself as being from "Wartburg Theological Seminary." The implication, I think, is that he is on the theological faculty there, or at least is somehow on the staff. But he is neither; he's merely on their Board of Directors. That troubles me. I strikes me as a bit dishonest.

Does anyone else feel that way?


The Trustees of The University of Texas Coordinating Board, which oversees eight academic campuses and six academic health institutions, routinely identify themselves publicly as being with "The University of Texas."  In my experience, it's a higher education thing.

Tom Pearson

His identification with Wartburg in the video suggests an institutional imprimatur. That's what some might find troubling.

jebutler

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2018, 03:09:34 PM »

Watching the video, he simply identifies himself as being from "Wartburg Theological Seminary." The implication, I think, is that he is on the theological faculty there, or at least is somehow on the staff. But he is neither; he's merely on their Board of Directors. That troubles me. I strikes me as a bit dishonest.

Does anyone else feel that way?


The Trustees of The University of Texas Coordinating Board, which oversees eight academic campuses and six academic health institutions, routinely identify themselves publicly as being with "The University of Texas."  In my experience, it's a higher education thing.

Tom Pearson

His identification with Wartburg in the video suggests an institutional imprimatur. That's what some might find troubling.

I don't think his identification suggests that Wartburg approves or sanctions this video, no more than I would think so if a member of the Board of Regent at one of our seminaries was to do one. But by stating that he is from WTS, he gives the impression that he is on their faculty (at least I would think to most folks. I know I went to the WTS website and looked under Faculty to find him. I was surprised to find out that he was only on their Board of Directors.)

I thank Dr. Pearson for explaining that this is common in higher education circles. But it still makes me feel uneasy, much like someone with an honorary degree calling him/herself "doctor."
These are things that we can discuss among learned and reasonable people, or even among ourselves. (Luther, SA III, paraphrased).

Mark Brown

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2018, 03:18:29 PM »
This entire thread is encapsulates our present media moment so well.  First Pr. Austen works the fake news smear machine so well I'd have to assume he's funded by the Russians. (He's an adulterer! He's not on the clergy roster! He's lying!)  Then he bids it become a shame mob. (Call both the sem and the Denominational office.)

And the entire point is simply one of institutional hygiene.  Because let's face it, if you can't be part of an ELCA seminary if you at one time held to biblical sexuality morality even if you've since repented of such a grievous error, making a video for Prager U (eww, cooties, they probably still hold biblical sexual morality) would be much worse.  The fierce urgency of now demands we remedy this. 

gan ainm

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2018, 03:21:50 PM »
This entire thread is encapsulates our present media moment so well.  First Pr. Austen works the fake news smear machine so well I'd have to assume he's funded by the Russians. (He's an adulterer! He's not on the clergy roster! He's lying!)  Then he bids it become a shame mob. (Call both the sem and the Denominational office.)

And the entire point is simply one of institutional hygiene.  Because let's face it, if you can't be part of an ELCA seminary if you at one time held to biblical sexuality morality even if you've since repented of such a grievous error, making a video for Prager U (eww, cooties, they probably still hold biblical sexual morality) would be much worse.  The fierce urgency of now demands we remedy this.

Nailed it! 


Charles Austin

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #39 on: December 27, 2018, 05:06:51 PM »
My, My! Such fever and psychologizing!
I was merely seeking information. What is the website? Who is speaking and from what standing or perspective?
I had encountered the name of Stephen Cornils years ago and knew he was a pastor in Minneapolis. I knew he had retired - or at least left - the large church in Minneapolis. That was on their website.
So as  simple matter of wondering where he was now, I looked at the ELCA clergy roster. He wasn't there. Others, not this humble correspondent, found information about his background.
Not finding him on the ELCA roster, and even if they were late in posting his current status, he should have been there, I began to wonder. I am a curious person and sometimes wondering leads to interesting findings, sometimes not.
Then suddenly, there is a slam down mention of (ta da! again!) the ELCA and sexuality, which, based on what we know now; has nothing to do with the question at hand.
Personally, I don't really care. Whatever his status is won't affect how I get through tomorrow.
So if folks really want to know things, I suggested how they might proceed.

Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

Mike Bennett

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #40 on: December 27, 2018, 05:23:33 PM »
I have encountered the name before, but I'm not sure where. Although he is pictured on the Wartburg site clerically garbed, his name does not come up in a search of the ELCA clergy roster.

The Wartburg website identifies him as a member of the ELCA Church Council, yet he is not on the Church Council directory.

https://directory.elca.org/Pages/index.aspx/churchwide/church-council

From the Church Council Minutes of November 2017 as part of an en bloc election of people to boards:

To re-elect to the board of directors of Wartburg Theological Seminary for a six-year term ending in December 2023: The Rev. Stephen J. Cornils and the Rev. Kathryn A. Kleinhans.

The "ELCA Church Council" under his (and other) names, probably indicates that they are elected to the board by the ELCA Church Council.

I'm sure your right about that, but the Wartburg website does leave one to conjecture.

Watching the video, he simply identifies himself as being from "Wartburg Theological Seminary." The implication, I think, is that he is on the theological faculty there, or at least is somehow on the staff. But he is neither; he's merely on their Board of Directors. That troubles me. I strikes me as a bit dishonest.

Does anyone else feel that way?


Unless the seminary gave him permission to say that, I agree.

Umm, the Board governs the seminary. The seminary does not “give permission” to a Board member to do or say anything.
“What peace can there be, so long as the many whoredoms and sorceries of your mother Jezebel continue?”  2 Kings 9:22

Mike Bennett

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #41 on: December 27, 2018, 05:34:23 PM »
We were given a link to a video purporting to say some things about the impact of Luther and the Protestant Reformation, and where do we immediately and persistently go? Three pages into this, I cannot stop remembering the following, which has been attributed to Socrates, Eleanor Roosevelt, and who knows who else: “Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.”  There, now everybody (except George Rahn) can be offended.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 05:37:32 PM by Mike Bennett »
“What peace can there be, so long as the many whoredoms and sorceries of your mother Jezebel continue?”  2 Kings 9:22

Charles Austin

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #42 on: December 27, 2018, 06:11:53 PM »
I'm not offended.
It's an inane saying. Socrates might have said it, but not Mrs. Roosevelt.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

RandyBosch

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #43 on: December 27, 2018, 06:47:12 PM »
I'm not offended.
It's an inane saying. Socrates might have said it, but not Mrs. Roosevelt.

Most likely Socrates, but rendered in English as "“Strong minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, weak minds discuss people.”

Professional HR folks are more likely to be offended...

James_Gale

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #44 on: December 27, 2018, 08:31:24 PM »
I have encountered the name before, but I'm not sure where. Although he is pictured on the Wartburg site clerically garbed, his name does not come up in a search of the ELCA clergy roster.

The Wartburg website identifies him as a member of the ELCA Church Council, yet he is not on the Church Council directory.

https://directory.elca.org/Pages/index.aspx/churchwide/church-council

From the Church Council Minutes of November 2017 as part of an en bloc election of people to boards:

To re-elect to the board of directors of Wartburg Theological Seminary for a six-year term ending in December 2023: The Rev. Stephen J. Cornils and the Rev. Kathryn A. Kleinhans.

The "ELCA Church Council" under his (and other) names, probably indicates that they are elected to the board by the ELCA Church Council.

I'm sure your right about that, but the Wartburg website does leave one to conjecture.

Watching the video, he simply identifies himself as being from "Wartburg Theological Seminary." The implication, I think, is that he is on the theological faculty there, or at least is somehow on the staff. But he is neither; he's merely on their Board of Directors. That troubles me. I strikes me as a bit dishonest.

Does anyone else feel that way?


Unless the seminary gave him permission to say that, I agree.

Umm, the Board governs the seminary. The seminary does not “give permission” to a Board member to do or say anything.


The Board as a whole governs the seminary and could give an individual Board member authority to speak as a Wartburg representative. An individual Board member acting alone has no such authority.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 11:51:15 PM by James_Gale »