Author Topic: Luther on Prager U  (Read 6570 times)

jebutler

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Luther on Prager U
« on: December 25, 2018, 10:18:42 PM »
Prof. Stephen Cornils of Wartburg Theological Seminary has posted a video on Prager University on You Tube.

I'd never heard of him previously. Any thoughts from our ELCA participants about him? Here is a link to the video. Any thoughts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCbhlC_sThY
These are things that we can discuss among learned and reasonable people, or even among ourselves. (Luther, SA III, paraphrased).

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2018, 10:54:45 PM »
I don't believe he's a professor at Wartburg Seminary. He is not listed as faculty or staff. He is chair of the board of directors of Wartburg Seminary. He was pastor of Mount Olivet Lutheran Church in Minneapolis, which was the largest congregation in the ELCA. It's baptized membership is 14,732 according to the ELCA website. (Their average worship is 2549.) I believe that the largest ELCA congregation is now Hope Lutheran in West Des Moines, IA with a membership of 17,814 and an average worship attendance of 12,054.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Charles Austin

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2018, 11:06:50 PM »
I have encountered the name before, but I'm not sure where. Although he is pictured on the Wartburg site clerically garbed, his name does not come up in a search of the ELCA clergy roster.
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James_Gale

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2018, 11:31:34 PM »
I don't believe he's a professor at Wartburg Seminary. He is not listed as faculty or staff. He is chair of the board of directors of Wartburg Seminary. He was pastor of Mount Olivet Lutheran Church in Minneapolis, which was the largest congregation in the ELCA. It's baptized membership is 14,732 according to the ELCA website. (Their average worship is 2549.) I believe that the largest ELCA congregation is now Hope Lutheran in West Des Moines, IA with a membership of 17,814 and an average worship attendance of 12,054.


He retired from Mt. Olivet earlier this year. He was one of a large pastoral staff, but not the senior pastor.

Charles Austin

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2018, 12:11:33 AM »
But why isn’t his name on our clergy roster?
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readselerttoo

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2018, 12:17:50 AM »
One of the mis-interpretations about Luther's legacy is that a human became a free individual.  This was an unfortunate result of the Reformation process and certainly some of the other reformers took what Luther proposed in terms of the human person and created their inaccurate and non-biblical interpretations.  Leading to the awful venture of the Enlightenment with its resultant belief that the human being could act independent of God and successfully so without fear of reprisal.  But Luther would NEVER say that the human being was a free actor before God's judgment.  In fact the human was in bondage to sin and could never free himself based on a so-called free will.  To say so would limit the scope of Jesus' effective death and resurrection for others.  To say so would be active rebellion against God as God was the one and only judge of the human person. 

What Luther started was to abolish the need for the medieval Church as buffer for one's own requirement to make justification for himself.  The whole medieval church's system of penance and indulgences would fall on this.  Luther freed the individual from the corporate nature of the church's system for making justification for a person based on the system of indulgences.  Now each person from the Pope to the person on the street had to make answer for each's own failue before God's righteous eye.  One could no longer hide from God's demand for personal accountability by appealing to the medieval Church's penitential system.

But the human as free actor was an Enlightenment value based on later reformers who took Luther's initial idea and ran off with it by drawing other conclusions which perhaps work for the secular humanism of the day but not for the religious person who could not hide from God's demand for accountability before Himself and the neighbor.

James_Gale

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2018, 12:21:47 AM »
But why isn’t his name on our clergy roster?


I don’t know.

Dave Benke

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2018, 09:48:23 AM »
I don't believe he's a professor at Wartburg Seminary. He is not listed as faculty or staff. He is chair of the board of directors of Wartburg Seminary. He was pastor of Mount Olivet Lutheran Church in Minneapolis, which was the largest congregation in the ELCA. It's baptized membership is 14,732 according to the ELCA website. (Their average worship is 2549.) I believe that the largest ELCA congregation is now Hope Lutheran in West Des Moines, IA with a membership of 17,814 and an average worship attendance of 12,054.

Those two are bigger than the biggest Missouri Synod congregations.  In terms of denominational polity, the ELCA allows for delegate selection based on more than the Missouri Synod's one/one ratio (one pastor and one lay delegate from each congregation regardless of membership), doesn't it?  How does that work in practical terms - what gets brought forward and passed, who gets elected, etc.?

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Charles Austin

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2018, 10:54:17 AM »
A little scrolling around the internet teaches us that Dennis Prager is a long-time commentator and columnist and that "Prager U" is one of his online "projects." His columns suggest that he is Jewish, a strong-strong supporter of Israel (and thinks that modern American Jews do not support Israel enough), believes that the current president is the "best friend Israel ever had," deplores the "destruction" of the Miss America Pageant, is a strong Trump supporter and is on the far right on other current social issues.  It appears that one of his columns has nasty things to say about the Southern Poverty Law Center. Others can read and come to their own conclusions.
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2018, 11:04:01 AM »
I have encountered the name before, but I'm not sure where. Although he is pictured on the Wartburg site clerically garbed, his name does not come up in a search of the ELCA clergy roster.


His name became known back in 1993 when he had to resign from Central Lutheran Church in Minneapolis over affairs he had ten years earlier while serving a congregation in California. If I remember right, his father was the bishop in California. I don't know what happened to his roster status at that time.

Some info on this here


A LinkedIn site listed him as "Lead Pastor at West Campus of Mt Olivet."
« Last Edit: December 26, 2018, 11:10:41 AM by Brian Stoffregen »
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Mike Bennett

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2018, 11:14:15 AM »
Three statements jumped out at me:

1. Luther was flawed.  Well, of course he was.

2. An indulgence was like a Get Out of Hell Free card.  No, it wasn’t. One could describe it as a Get Out of Purgatory Free (or quicker) card,  I suppose.

3. Luther taught the autonomy of the individual under God. (I’m paraphrasing, but that was the gist).  No, he did not. Luther recognized three authorities to whom all are subject: Family, Civil Government, Church. 
“What peace can there be, so long as the many whoredoms and sorceries of your mother Jezebel continue?”  2 Kings 9:22

DeHall1

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2018, 11:18:13 AM »
I don't believe he's a professor at Wartburg Seminary. He is not listed as faculty or staff. He is chair of the board of directors of Wartburg Seminary. He was pastor of Mount Olivet Lutheran Church in Minneapolis, which was the largest congregation in the ELCA. It's baptized membership is 14,732 according to the ELCA website. (Their average worship is 2549.) I believe that the largest ELCA congregation is now Hope Lutheran in West Des Moines, IA with a membership of 17,814 and an average worship attendance of 12,054.


He retired from Mt. Olivet earlier this year. He was one of a large pastoral staff, but not the senior pastor.

IIRC, Pastor Cornils was the "Lead Pastor" at the  Mt. Olivet's West Campus (in Victoria, MN) until he retired in June 2018....So, regardless of the situation in California in the 90's, he returned to the ELCA roster as a Pastor.  He is listed as "The Rev. Dr. Stephen Cornils" in Wartburg Seminary documents and official ELCA documents regarding Wartburg Seminary.  Not sure what that means, however.  I know retired pastors in the LCMS often refer to themselves as "Reverend"....But they can also be found listed in the LCMS locator.   

Mike Bennett

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2018, 11:19:54 AM »
A little scrolling around the internet teaches us that Dennis Prager is a long-time commentator and columnist and that "Prager U" is one of his online "projects." His columns suggest that he is Jewish, a strong-strong supporter of Israel (and thinks that modern American Jews do not support Israel enough), believes that the current president is the "best friend Israel ever had," deplores the "destruction" of the Miss America Pageant, is a strong Trump supporter and is on the far right on other current social issues.  It appears that one of his columns has nasty things to say about the Southern Poverty Law Center. Others can read and come to their own conclusions.

I had thought we were being asked for reactions to the video.  Silly me.
“What peace can there be, so long as the many whoredoms and sorceries of your mother Jezebel continue?”  2 Kings 9:22

jebutler

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2018, 11:27:49 AM »
A little scrolling around the internet teaches us that Dennis Prager is a long-time commentator and columnist and that "Prager U" is one of his online "projects."

Why do you put the word "projects" in quotes? Are you quoting someone? Are you implying that his Prager U is not a project? Are you implying that there is something nefarious about it?


 His columns suggest that he is Jewish, a strong-strong supporter of Israel (and thinks that modern American Jews do not support Israel enough), believes that the current president is the "best friend Israel ever had," deplores the "destruction" of the Miss America Pageant, is a strong Trump supporter and is on the far right on other current social issues.

They only suggest that he is Jewish? He's never made any attempt to hide his faith.

It appears that one of his columns has nasty things to say about the Southern Poverty Law Center. Others can read and come to their own conclusions.

You mean the  Southern Poverty Law Center that wrote about PragerU on its "Hatewatch" blog? I don't know why he might be upset with an organization that lists him on a blog called "Hatewatch." Could you think of any reasons why that might upset him?
These are things that we can discuss among learned and reasonable people, or even among ourselves. (Luther, SA III, paraphrased).

Richard Johnson

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Re: Luther on Prager U
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2018, 11:32:40 AM »
If I remember right, his father was the bishop in California. I don't know what happened to his roster status at that time.


You remember incorrectly. His father, E. J. Cornils, was a prominent pastor in the South Pacific District of the ALC, I believe executive vice president, but never president/bishop.
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