Author Topic: Funeral for President Bush  (Read 1738 times)

John_Hannah

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Funeral for President Bush
« on: December 05, 2018, 03:42:17 PM »
I watched the Bush funeral at the National Cathedral. My random thoughts about it:

o  Impressive military ceremonial precision. Good to see all those lower ranking military members excelling in such a prominent role. (Much to tell their girl friends or wives and grandchildren down the road.)
o  Excellent eulogies by all (Meachem, Simpson, Mulhaney, and Bush 43).
o  President Bush was clearly a great example for families and citizens in many, many ways and for many, many years.
o  Yet too much eulogy for a Christian funeral. Some content bordered on Pelagianism. (That may be necessary for such a state affair and for one so exemplary as Bush 41.)
o  Clear Christian witness in the liturgy, homily, hymnody, and even in each of the eulogies.
o  Followed the ordo of the Great Tradition but without a Eucharist.

I hope that the service of his Houston parish will likewise be broadcast. Likely it will not have that quircky church-state mix. (Anglicans seem comfortable with that while most Lutherans do not.)

I was more impressed with the funeral for Justice Scalia.

o  His priest son stressed in the homily that Jesus Christ was the hero we celebrate today.
o  There was a Eucharist, giving clear witness to that proclamation.
o  Less clergy in prominence.

Others who watched may have additional comments and opinions.   :)

Peace, JOHN



Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

Dave Likeness

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Re: Funeral for President Bush
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2018, 03:53:10 PM »
John, today's festivities were labeled a "Memorial Service".  The Funeral Service actually takes place in Houston.
The 4 eulogies were not to be mistaken for a homily.   I would hope there will be a genuine Christ-centered sermon
in the Funeral Service in Houston.  If there was a homily today, then I perhaps turned off my TV early.

« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 04:04:23 PM by Dave Likeness »

Eileen Smith

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Re: Funeral for President Bush
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2018, 04:21:59 PM »
I watched the Bush funeral at the National Cathedral. My random thoughts about it:

o  Impressive military ceremonial precision. Good to see all those lower ranking military members excelling in such a prominent role. (Much to tell their girl friends or wives and grandchildren down the road.)
o  Excellent eulogies by all (Meachem, Simpson, Mulhaney, and Bush 43).
o  President Bush was clearly a great example for families and citizens in many, many ways and for many, many years.
o  Yet too much eulogy for a Christian funeral. Some content bordered on Pelagianism. (That may be necessary for such a state affair and for one so exemplary as Bush 41.)
o  Clear Christian witness in the liturgy, homily, hymnody, and even in each of the eulogies.
o  Followed the ordo of the Great Tradition but without a Eucharist.

I hope that the service of his Houston parish will likewise be broadcast. Likely it will not have that quircky church-state mix. (Anglicans seem comfortable with that while most Lutherans do not.)

I was more impressed with the funeral for Justice Scalia.

o  His priest son stressed in the homily that Jesus Christ was the hero we celebrate today.
o  There was a Eucharist, giving clear witness to that proclamation.
o  Less clergy in prominence.

Others who watched may have additional comments and opinions.   :)

Peace, JOHN

I agree with all your points and would add music.  The music was just beautiful and I liked the choice of hymns.  As one who doesn't like eulogies (but certainly understand in this sort of service) I was captivated by the stories - the memories shared.  My take-away was that of all the accomplishments of one who went to war and served as President of the United States, his legacy is one of loving and faithful husband, father, grandfather, great-grandfather, and friend. 

Harvey_Mozolak

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Re: Funeral for President Bush
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2018, 04:25:18 PM »
interesting... procession into CAPITAL featured Beautiful Savior and A Mighty Fortress I think at l least three, maybe four times alternating...

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John_Hannah

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Re: Funeral for President Bush
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2018, 04:58:40 PM »
I watched the Bush funeral at the National Cathedral. My random thoughts about it:

o  Impressive military ceremonial precision. Good to see all those lower ranking military members excelling in such a prominent role. (Much to tell their girl friends or wives and grandchildren down the road.)
o  Excellent eulogies by all (Meachem, Simpson, Mulhaney, and Bush 43).
o  President Bush was clearly a great example for families and citizens in many, many ways and for many, many years.
o  Yet too much eulogy for a Christian funeral. Some content bordered on Pelagianism. (That may be necessary for such a state affair and for one so exemplary as Bush 41.)
o  Clear Christian witness in the liturgy, homily, hymnody, and even in each of the eulogies.
o  Followed the ordo of the Great Tradition but without a Eucharist.

I hope that the service of his Houston parish will likewise be broadcast. Likely it will not have that quircky church-state mix. (Anglicans seem comfortable with that while most Lutherans do not.)

I was more impressed with the funeral for Justice Scalia.

o  His priest son stressed in the homily that Jesus Christ was the hero we celebrate today.
o  There was a Eucharist, giving clear witness to that proclamation.
o  Less clergy in prominence.

Others who watched may have additional comments and opinions.   :)

Peace, JOHN

I agree with all your points and would add music.  The music was just beautiful and I liked the choice of hymns.  As one who doesn't like eulogies (but certainly understand in this sort of service) I was captivated by the stories - the memories shared.  My take-away was that of all the accomplishments of one who went to war and served as President of the United States, his legacy is one of loving and faithful husband, father, grandfather, great-grandfather, and friend.

Amen to music. Well done by the assorted military musicians and cathedral choir. Hymn choices were indeed the best. Yes, the Army band played "Beautiful Savior" and "A Mighty Fortress" multiple times for the procession into the Capital.

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

FrPeters

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Re: Funeral for President Bush
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2018, 05:08:36 PM »
I took this to be a national service rather than a religious funeral and thought that a few parts of the homily were good but, as said before, too much eulogy for my taste.  I did think that this was perhaps directed outside the religious sphere and so that might have justified some of it but even then it was rather off for a man who was known most of all for his humility.
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Charles Austin

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Re: Funeral for President Bush
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2018, 05:25:11 PM »
As a national memorial service, it was outstanding. President Bush was a man who acted with integrity, cared for others, had a remarkable and gifted wife and family, and served his nation for his entire life. Today some might fuss that he was of the "elite Eastern establishment," born to privilege and living his life in comfort; and to some extent that is true. But considering what others might have done with a wealthy and socially-privileged birth and life circumstance and what he did with it, we must recognize him with great honors. All memoirs, even those of people who opposed him politically, speak of his care for others - even his opponents - and his graciousness. A fine man, indeed.
History can assess the geopolitics and economics of the oil industry, and his family was part of that; but as a man, the late president was - given his time and place - a man worth honoring.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Interesting things on the new administration and religion in the 1/24 newspapers. Douthat column, e.g. Posted link here, but it was deleted.

John_Hannah

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Re: Funeral for President Bush
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2018, 06:02:54 PM »
As a national memorial service, it was outstanding. President Bush was a man who acted with integrity, cared for others, had a remarkable and gifted wife and family, and served his nation for his entire life. Today some might fuss that he was of the "elite Eastern establishment," born to privilege and living his life in comfort; and to some extent that is true. But considering what others might have done with a wealthy and socially-privileged birth and life circumstance and what he did with it, we must recognize him with great honors. All memoirs, even those of people who opposed him politically, speak of his care for others - even his opponents - and his graciousness. A fine man, indeed.
History can assess the geopolitics and economics of the oil industry, and his family was part of that; but as a man, the late president was - given his time and place - a man worth honoring.

No doubt about it. He deserved very bit of those eulogies and more. I'm just not sure that it belonged at the church, but I'm not an Episcopalian. I almost forgot that he was raised in the East coast establishment, but then I'm just a dumb veteran who always admired his "adventure" in the Pacific at 20 years old.

Peace, JOHN (career Army chaplain, who never allows a flag over casket in the church   :) )
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

Eileen Smith

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Re: Funeral for President Bush
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2018, 06:18:12 PM »
As a national memorial service, it was outstanding. President Bush was a man who acted with integrity, cared for others, had a remarkable and gifted wife and family, and served his nation for his entire life. Today some might fuss that he was of the "elite Eastern establishment," born to privilege and living his life in comfort; and to some extent that is true. But considering what others might have done with a wealthy and socially-privileged birth and life circumstance and what he did with it, we must recognize him with great honors. All memoirs, even those of people who opposed him politically, speak of his care for others - even his opponents - and his graciousness. A fine man, indeed.
History can assess the geopolitics and economics of the oil industry, and his family was part of that; but as a man, the late president was - given his time and place - a man worth honoring.

No doubt about it. He deserved very bit of those eulogies and more. I'm just not sure that it belonged at the church, but I'm not an Episcopalian. I almost forgot that he was raised in the East coast establishment, but then I'm just a dumb veteran who always admired his "adventure" in the Pacific at 20 years old.

Peace, JOHN (career Army chaplain, who never allows a flag over casket in the church   :) )

Not a dumb veteran at all.  As I listened to the eulogies, most especially about his military service I couldn't help but reflect on Ann Richardson's remark before his 1988 election... "Poor George, he was born with a silver spoon..."    That's immaterial as one looks at his service both in the military and beyond.  His "adventure" is to be admired. 

Eileen Smith

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Re: Funeral for President Bush
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2018, 06:30:07 PM »
I watched the Bush funeral at the National Cathedral. My random thoughts about it:

o  Impressive military ceremonial precision. Good to see all those lower ranking military members excelling in such a prominent role. (Much to tell their girl friends or wives and grandchildren down the road.)
o  Excellent eulogies by all (Meachem, Simpson, Mulhaney, and Bush 43).
o  President Bush was clearly a great example for families and citizens in many, many ways and for many, many years.
o  Yet too much eulogy for a Christian funeral. Some content bordered on Pelagianism. (That may be necessary for such a state affair and for one so exemplary as Bush 41.)
o  Clear Christian witness in the liturgy, homily, hymnody, and even in each of the eulogies.
o  Followed the ordo of the Great Tradition but without a Eucharist.

I hope that the service of his Houston parish will likewise be broadcast. Likely it will not have that quircky church-state mix. (Anglicans seem comfortable with that while most Lutherans do not.)

I was more impressed with the funeral for Justice Scalia.

o  His priest son stressed in the homily that Jesus Christ was the hero we celebrate today.
o  There was a Eucharist, giving clear witness to that proclamation.
o  Less clergy in prominence.

Others who watched may have additional comments and opinions.   :)

Peace, JOHN

I agree with all your points and would add music.  The music was just beautiful and I liked the choice of hymns.  As one who doesn't like eulogies (but certainly understand in this sort of service) I was captivated by the stories - the memories shared.  My take-away was that of all the accomplishments of one who went to war and served as President of the United States, his legacy is one of loving and faithful husband, father, grandfather, great-grandfather, and friend.

Amen to music. Well done by the assorted military musicians and cathedral choir. Hymn choices were indeed the best. Yes, the Army band played "Beautiful Savior" and "A Mighty Fortress" multiple times for the procession into the Capital.

Peace, JOHN

And, of course, Eternal Father, Strong to Save.   

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Re: Funeral for President Bush
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2018, 07:44:50 PM »
... I would hope there will be a genuine Christ-centered sermon in the Funeral Service in Houston. ...

St. Martin's, Houston, is in the evangelical tradition and perhaps the only Episcopal megachurch (9,000 members served by 13 priests). I think there's a good chance that the sermon will be Christ-centered. We'll see.

Harvey_Mozolak

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Re: Funeral for President Bush
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2018, 08:49:59 PM »
ah, yes John, the wonderful gall of a pall replacing the flag... such a wordless statement that could have been made and with the LBW (and other liturgies) baptismal quotation...  missed...  when the body arrives at the church it belongs to the church and clergy until it leaves the church...  (my rubric, I think somewhat ancient)

John, why do soldiers (I see police do it too) wear hats in church... at least in procession and tho they take them off when seated... why not the reverence for the church and removal of head covering... only allowed clergy at various times during the liturgy....  ???   Would a chaplain in uniform wearing a cap/hat (sorry don't know proper term) just going to Sunday worship, take off the covering when entering a church or only when seated?
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James_Gale

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Re: Funeral for President Bush
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2018, 09:08:02 PM »
As a national memorial service, it was outstanding. President Bush was a man who acted with integrity, cared for others, had a remarkable and gifted wife and family, and served his nation for his entire life. Today some might fuss that he was of the "elite Eastern establishment," born to privilege and living his life in comfort; and to some extent that is true. But considering what others might have done with a wealthy and socially-privileged birth and life circumstance and what he did with it, we must recognize him with great honors. All memoirs, even those of people who opposed him politically, speak of his care for others - even his opponents - and his graciousness. A fine man, indeed.
History can assess the geopolitics and economics of the oil industry, and his family was part of that; but as a man, the late president was - given his time and place - a man worth honoring.

No doubt about it. He deserved very bit of those eulogies and more. I'm just not sure that it belonged at the church, but I'm not an Episcopalian. I almost forgot that he was raised in the East coast establishment, but then I'm just a dumb veteran who always admired his "adventure" in the Pacific at 20 years old.

Peace, JOHN (career Army chaplain, who never allows a flag over casket in the church   :) )

Not a dumb veteran at all.  As I listened to the eulogies, most especially about his military service I couldn't help but reflect on Ann Richardson's remark before his 1988 election... "Poor George, he was born with a silver spoon..."    That's immaterial as one looks at his service both in the military and beyond.  His "adventure" is to be admired.


Gov. Richards's actual quote:  "Poor George.  He can't help it.  He was born with a silver foot in his mouth."  Not a bad line in a political-convention speech. 
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 09:12:17 PM by James_Gale »

James_Gale

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Re: Funeral for President Bush
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2018, 09:46:45 PM »
I took this to be a national service rather than a religious funeral and thought that a few parts of the homily were good but, as said before, too much eulogy for my taste.  I did think that this was perhaps directed outside the religious sphere and so that might have justified some of it but even then it was rather off for a man who was known most of all for his humility.


Today's service indeed was a "state funeral."  State funerals take place in Washington and are administered by the Military Command of Washington.  Presidents and former presidents obviously  don't have to have state funerals.  However, when they do, the state is necessarily involved and to some extent in charge.  A president or former president may include religious aspects in a state funeral.  But the military's involvement is not really optional. 


I join in wondering about the shape of tomorrow's "private" funeral.  In form, Mrs. Bush's funeral tracked today's state funeral.  It included great music, Scripture readings, several eulogies, and a homily that itself was part eulogy.  All this was wrapped inside the BCP funeral liturgy.  I don't think that communion was part of the service, although the family may have communed at some other point.

Eileen Smith

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Re: Funeral for President Bush
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2018, 09:59:19 PM »
As a national memorial service, it was outstanding. President Bush was a man who acted with integrity, cared for others, had a remarkable and gifted wife and family, and served his nation for his entire life. Today some might fuss that he was of the "elite Eastern establishment," born to privilege and living his life in comfort; and to some extent that is true. But considering what others might have done with a wealthy and socially-privileged birth and life circumstance and what he did with it, we must recognize him with great honors. All memoirs, even those of people who opposed him politically, speak of his care for others - even his opponents - and his graciousness. A fine man, indeed.
History can assess the geopolitics and economics of the oil industry, and his family was part of that; but as a man, the late president was - given his time and place - a man worth honoring.

No doubt about it. He deserved very bit of those eulogies and more. I'm just not sure that it belonged at the church, but I'm not an Episcopalian. I almost forgot that he was raised in the East coast establishment, but then I'm just a dumb veteran who always admired his "adventure" in the Pacific at 20 years old.

Peace, JOHN (career Army chaplain, who never allows a flag over casket in the church   :) )

Not a dumb veteran at all.  As I listened to the eulogies, most especially about his military service I couldn't help but reflect on Ann Richardson's remark before his 1988 election... "Poor George, he was born with a silver spoon..."    That's immaterial as one looks at his service both in the military and beyond.  His "adventure" is to be admired.


Gov. Richards's actual quote:  "Poor George.  He can't help it.  He was born with a silver foot in his mouth."  Not a bad line in a political-convention speech.

Sorry for the misquote.