Author Topic: Care of our Jewish Neighbors  (Read 4256 times)

Donald_Kirchner

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 11527
    • View Profile
Re: Care of our Jewish Neighbors
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2018, 12:37:54 PM »
The purpose of that post, Mrs. Meyer, is...?  Surely not to perpetuate the divisiveness!   :(
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 01:28:54 PM by Pr. Don Kirchner »
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it’s not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

Dan Fienen

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 12590
    • View Profile
Re: Care of our Jewish Neighbors
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2018, 12:59:41 PM »
You, know, somehow I missed that anti-Semitism and intolerance was invented by Donald Trump.  Or that there was no divisiveness in America politics until he arrived on the political scene.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

Eileen Smith

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 2140
    • View Profile
Re: Care of our Jewish Neighbors
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2018, 01:15:15 PM »
Very good. The only quibble is a view that, around the world, Jews live in fear. No, they do not. From Israel to around the world, the Jewish people are a brave lot, never to be intimidated. I have many Jewish friends, I dated a Jewish woman, I’ve worked with many Jewish men and women over the years. They do not live in fear.

We will remember this tragedy in our Prayer for the Church tomorrow.

Your post is of interest to me as I, as well, have many Jewish friends, including family members through marriage.  I cannot say that I've ever heard them express fear.    But I sensed something else about the people of Jewish faith and couldn't define it until now.

Yesterday afternoon I participated in a Trunk of Treat hosted by a local congregation.  My job wasn't so much to give out candy (although I did) but rather to engage those who stopped by my table in conversations about children making good choices as part of our school programs on substance abuse.  A family stopped by, mother father, two children, and grandmother.  After some conversation the parents and kids took their leave and the grandmother stayed a while.  She said to me, "I'm glad I came.  I need to be happy."   It seemed an odd thing to say so I asked if everything was all right and she responded that she recently moved here from Pittsburgh where she was a member of Tree of Life.   This brief yet somewhat intense encounter reminded me of my Jewish friends comforting me when my parents died with gifts of sweets.   The Jewish people have tasted much bitterness in their history and to this present day.  But they are able to recognize God's presence in their lives and in the midst of bitterness they find God's sweetness.  They are a strong people. 

MaddogLutheran

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 3490
  • It's my fantasy football avatar...
    • View Profile
Re: Care of our Jewish Neighbors
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2018, 01:16:03 PM »
For your information and thought - Marie Meyer

From Bend the ARC - Pittsburgh Website

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Bend The Arc: Pittsburgh
We are the Pittsburgh affiliate of Bend the Arc: A Jewish Partnership for Justice.

[snip]

President Trump, you are not welcome in Pittsburgh until you commit yourself to compassionate, democratic policies that recognize the dignity of all of us.

As I've seen this reported in numerous places as somehow this group speaks for all Jews in Pittsburgh...I have to flag that as fake news.  I don't know what, if any, umbrella organization might do that, but it's not this group.  This statement is from a local chapter of a national organization whose website "about us" includes this:

Bend the Arc is a movement of tens of thousands of progressive Jews all across the country. For years, we’ve worked to build a more just society. Now we’re rising up in solidarity with everyone threatened by the Trump agenda to fight for the soul of our nation

So it's really a partisan political group, not unlike the religious right.  This was there self-description even before this heinous act. Contrast that with this:

Rabbi Jeffrey Myers, who was leading services at the Tree of Life Synagogue during Saturday's shooting, told CNN's "New Day" Monday morning that, "the President of the United States is always welcome. I'm a citizen. He's my president. He is certainly welcome," Myers said.

As shouldn't surprise, the membership of the synagogue is split on this:

"I do not welcome this President to my city," Lynnette Lederman [a former president of the synagogue] told CNN's John Berman on "New Day" earlier Monday morning when asked about a letter from other Jewish leaders asking the President not to visit Pittsburgh.

These quotes can be found here:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/29/politics/tree-of-life-synagogue-president-trump-pittsburgh-shooting/index.html

And so we continue to have a problem with fake news...even from people with good intentions.  It makes one wonder a couple of things:  Who exactly is politicizing this tragedy?  What would be the reaction if a group previously hostile to President Obama had stated he was not welcome after a similar tragedy?  Perhaps a group or region who might have thought he was talking about them when said people cling bitterly to guns and religion.

Sterling Spatz
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 01:20:51 PM by MaddogLutheran »
Sterling Spatz
ELCA pew-sitter

Dave Benke

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 12459
    • View Profile
    • Atlantic District, LCMS
Re: Care of our Jewish Neighbors
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2018, 01:18:55 PM »
From our Brooklyn Borough President Adams:  https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/28/nyregion/eric-adams-brooklyn-guns.html

We have had armed police protection at our church at Easter for the last three years.  I supported our Precinct from the Christian side of the aisle after two imams were assassinated in the neighborhood last year, so that they have weekly police protection and higher protection on the main streets near their places of worship all the time. 

Borough President Adams has been invited and will most likely attend our Parish Hall Re-dedication ceremonies on November 11.  With his handgun. 

With an NYC/NYS licensed daycare center, our congregation must have surveillance cameras at exits/entrances, doors locked until access is given through security officer, and sign-in of all visitors.  These compliance steps are pretty much, to me, common sense methods to ensure the safety of children and staff.  They're not foolproof, but they have prevented what is usually parental visitation scuffles and violence, as well as unauthorized entrance.

Sunday is a different deal, however, with three doors open to the public from 9-2.  Which is two doors too many these days.  We must take these assaults on free worship seriously.

Dave Benke

Eileen Smith

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 2140
    • View Profile
Re: Care of our Jewish Neighbors
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2018, 01:25:43 PM »
For your information and thought - Marie Meyer

From Bend the ARC - Pittsburgh Website

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Bend The Arc: Pittsburgh
We are the Pittsburgh affiliate of Bend the Arc: A Jewish Partnership for Justice.

[snip]

President Trump, you are not welcome in Pittsburgh until you commit yourself to compassionate, democratic policies that recognize the dignity of all of us.

As I've seen this reported in numerous places as somehow this group speaks for all Jews in Pittsburgh...I have to flag that as fake news.  I don't know what, if any, umbrella organization might do that, but it's not this group.  This statement is from a local chapter of a national organization whose website "about us" includes this:

Bend the Arc is a movement of tens of thousands of progressive Jews all across the country. For years, we’ve worked to build a more just society. Now we’re rising up in solidarity with everyone threatened by the Trump agenda to fight for the soul of our nation

So it's really a partisan political group, not unlike the religious right.  Contrast that with this:

Rabbi Jeffrey Myers, who was leading services at the Tree of Life Synagogue during Saturday's shooting, told CNN's "New Day" Monday morning that, "the President of the United States is always welcome. I'm a citizen. He's my president. He is certainly welcome," Myers said.

As shouldn't surprise, the membership of the synagogue is split on this:

"I do not welcome this President to my city," Lynnette Lederman (a former president of the synagogue) told CNN's John Berman on "New Day" earlier Monday morning when asked about a letter from other Jewish leaders asking the President not to visit Pittsburgh.

These quotes can be found here:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/29/politics/tree-of-life-synagogue-president-trump-pittsburgh-shooting/index.html

And so we continue to have a problem with fake news...even from people with good intentions.  It makes one wonder a couple of things:  Who exactly is politicizing this tragedy?  What would be the reaction of a group previously hostile to President Obama had stated he was not welcome after a similar tragedy?  Perhaps a group or region who might have thought he was talking about them when said people cling bitterly to guns and religion.

Sterling Spatz

Thank you for posting this.   I can't help but wonder how their letter doesn't constitute inciting hatred.   One doesn't need to personally know Jewish people to understand that they are not a homogeneous people, most especially politically.  To be sure there is are liberal Jews in this country who voted for Hillary Clinton and have an uneasy relationship with Israel.  And there are conservative (not necessarily as to Judaism) Jews who have supported Trump's pro-israel stance.  Whether one agrees with Trump's actions viz. Israel how could one suggest that he has incited violence against Jews given his support of Israel.

Donald_Kirchner

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 11527
    • View Profile
Re: Care of our Jewish Neighbors
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2018, 01:47:57 PM »
Yes, such a letter certainly does not square with this, for example:

"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu thanked US President Donald Trump on Sunday for his”unequivocal” response to a deadly attack on a Pittsburgh synagogue a day earlier...

He thanked Trump “for unequivocally condemning this heinous crime and for pledging to fight those who seek to destroy the Jewish people,” and praised the “clear condemnations” from American leaders across the political spectrum that have poured in since Saturday’s massacre.
 
“These statements are important. So too are actions that governments take to protect their citizens, whether that means providing security for vulnerable Jewish communities to passing tough laws against hate crimes,” Netanyahu wrote."

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-thanks-trump-in-condolence-letter-to-pittsburgh-jews/
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it’s not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

Eileen Smith

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 2140
    • View Profile
Re: Care of our Jewish Neighbors
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2018, 01:56:46 PM »
This is the message I sent to the Concordia University Chicago community:

Concordia Family,

Today I write to you with a heavy heart. This past week has been marred by both threats of violence and horrifying acts of murder. Last week, an individual was arrested and charged with mailing bombs to high profile individuals. On Saturday, at Tree of Life Synagogue near Pittsburgh, eleven of our fellow citizens were brutally murdered because of their religion. These inhuman actions join a growing list of violent political acts and violent acts against houses of worship – Jewish, Islamic and Christian. Kyrie eleison! Lord have mercy!

On October 31, we will remember the 501st anniversary of the Reformation. It too was a time of both political and religious violence and hatred. Each generation is painfully reminded that, ever since Cain murdered his brother Abel in Genesis 4, our human race is not only sinful but violently sinful. Yet God has embraced our sinful world with love and even became victim to murderous human evil by sending His Son to be crucified by and in place of fallen humanity. Yet murderous evil, the outgrowth of human sin, could not defeat the power of divine love as Jesus rose from death on Easter.

Luther wrote in the Small Catechism about the 5th Commandment (“You shall not murder”) these words, “What does this mean? We should fear and love God so that we do not hurt or harm our neighbor in his body, but help and support him in every physical need. ” Please join me in prayer:

•   For the survivors and loved ones of the victims at Tree of Life Synagogue and the entire Pittsburgh community
•   For those that contemplate political or religious violence that God would turn their hearts to ways of peace
•   For law enforcement and first responders who risk their lives by heading toward the sound of gunfire
•   For ourselves that we not only never hurt or harm our neighbor but have the courage to help and support them in both words and deeds

May the God of peace grant us peace!

This is beautiful; thank you.  Will this be shared on Concordia's website? 

Dan Fienen

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 12590
    • View Profile
Re: Care of our Jewish Neighbors
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2018, 02:14:54 PM »

Read an article by CNN columnist John Blake, "There's Scripture Backing Up Trump's Idea to Arm Houses of Worship".  Gives a thoughtful overview of opinion from religious leaders from both sides on the issue.  One interesting point was that pastors are called shepherds and part of the duty of a shepherd was to protect the sheep and part of the standard equipment of a shepherd was a long staff that could be used to fight off wolves that might attack the sheep.


Jesus' comments on swords, "live by the sword, die by the sword" and commanding his disciples to obtain swords, came in for attention also.


In all, it was a good discussion.  One point that I think needs special attention, that anyone, religious leader or congregant, who wants to be armed to protect the house of worship needs to be trained in the use of firearms for that purpose.  Just getting a gun and showing up with it without proper training can end up doing more harm than good.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

mariemeyer

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 4320
    • View Profile
Re: Care of our Jewish Neighbors
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2018, 02:39:19 PM »
The purpose of that post, Mrs. Meyer, is...?  Surely not to perpetuate the divisiveness!   :(

As stated, the post was for information and thought.  Before posting I went on line to learn more about Bend the ARC.  IMO the reference to the biblical message that every human being is made in the image of God prompted further thought.  I also thought the appeal for  "compassionate, democratic policies that recognize the dignity of all of us" was appropriate at this time. 


"The Torah teaches that every human being is made b’tzelem Elohim, in the image of God. This means all of us. "In our neighbors, Americans, and people worldwide who have reached out to give our community strength, there we find the image of God.  While we cannot speak for all Pittsburghers, or even all Jewish Pittsburghers, we know we speak for a diverse and unified group when we say:

President Trump, you are not welcome in Pittsburgh until you commit yourself to compassionate, democratic policies that recognize the dignity of all of us."

The above is a statement from one portion of the Jewish Community. I found it worth reading. 

Marie Meyer

 

John_Hannah

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 5368
    • View Profile
Re: Care of our Jewish Neighbors
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2018, 02:39:46 PM »
From our Brooklyn Borough President Adams:  https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/28/nyregion/eric-adams-brooklyn-guns.html

We have had armed police protection at our church at Easter for the last three years.  I supported our Precinct from the Christian side of the aisle after two imams were assassinated in the neighborhood last year, so that they have weekly police protection and higher protection on the main streets near their places of worship all the time. 

Borough President Adams has been invited and will most likely attend our Parish Hall Re-dedication ceremonies on November 11.  With his handgun. 

With an NYC/NYS licensed daycare center, our congregation must have surveillance cameras at exits/entrances, doors locked until access is given through security officer, and sign-in of all visitors.  These compliance steps are pretty much, to me, common sense methods to ensure the safety of children and staff.  They're not foolproof, but they have prevented what is usually parental visitation scuffles and violence, as well as unauthorized entrance.

Sunday is a different deal, however, with three doors open to the public from 9-2.  Which is two doors too many these days.  We must take these assaults on free worship seriously.

Dave Benke

The last time Coptic Christians were murdered in Egypt, the NYPD posted two officer at Our Saviour in the Bronx before, during, and after the time scheduled for their liturgy. No one requested that; it seemed to be part of the department's plan for response to world terror events. I was surprised that NYPD knew that the Coptic Christians regularly use our facility. There are no signs; the congregation relies on its own network of association.

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

Daniel L. Gard

  • Guest
Re: Care of our Jewish Neighbors
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2018, 02:54:07 PM »
This is the message I sent to the Concordia University Chicago community:

Concordia Family,

Today I write to you with a heavy heart. This past week has been marred by both threats of violence and horrifying acts of murder. Last week, an individual was arrested and charged with mailing bombs to high profile individuals. On Saturday, at Tree of Life Synagogue near Pittsburgh, eleven of our fellow citizens were brutally murdered because of their religion. These inhuman actions join a growing list of violent political acts and violent acts against houses of worship – Jewish, Islamic and Christian. Kyrie eleison! Lord have mercy!

On October 31, we will remember the 501st anniversary of the Reformation. It too was a time of both political and religious violence and hatred. Each generation is painfully reminded that, ever since Cain murdered his brother Abel in Genesis 4, our human race is not only sinful but violently sinful. Yet God has embraced our sinful world with love and even became victim to murderous human evil by sending His Son to be crucified by and in place of fallen humanity. Yet murderous evil, the outgrowth of human sin, could not defeat the power of divine love as Jesus rose from death on Easter.

Luther wrote in the Small Catechism about the 5th Commandment (“You shall not murder”) these words, “What does this mean? We should fear and love God so that we do not hurt or harm our neighbor in his body, but help and support him in every physical need. ” Please join me in prayer:

•   For the survivors and loved ones of the victims at Tree of Life Synagogue and the entire Pittsburgh community
•   For those that contemplate political or religious violence that God would turn their hearts to ways of peace
•   For law enforcement and first responders who risk their lives by heading toward the sound of gunfire
•   For ourselves that we not only never hurt or harm our neighbor but have the courage to help and support them in both words and deeds

May the God of peace grant us peace!

This is beautiful; thank you.  Will this be shared on Concordia's website?

Thank you. I occasionally (frequently?) send missives to our campus and most are not posted. Hopefully I can help students and others place all things within the context of God's love in Christ for all humanity.

mariemeyer

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 4320
    • View Profile
Re: Care of our Jewish Neighbors
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2018, 10:04:52 AM »
The purpose of that post, Mrs. Meyer, is...?  Surely not to perpetuate the divisiveness!   :(

The above prompted me to question the wisdom of my posting on this Forum.  Perpetuating divisiveness has hardly been the purpose of my comments. Have I posted thoughts that do not reflect the majority of persons who post here?  Yes.  For that I make no apology. 

Today is an appropriate day for me to move on rejoicing at the birth of Bill and my first great-grandchild.

God's peace.

Your sister in Christ, Marie








Terry W Culler

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 2228
    • View Profile
Re: Care of our Jewish Neighbors
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2018, 10:20:30 AM »
Frankly most Antisemitism  in this country is found on college campuses and has its well spring in the ideas of the radical left.
Goodnewsforabadworld.wordpress.com

Brian Stoffregen

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 43174
  • ἐγὼ δὲ λέγω ὑμῖν, ἀγαπᾶτε τοὺς ἐχθροὺς ὑμῶν
    • View Profile
Re: Care of our Jewish Neighbors
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2018, 10:30:37 AM »
Frankly most Antisemitism  in this country is found on college campuses and has its well spring in the ideas of the radical left.


Huh? Where does that come from? Being somewhat of a leftist and involved in inter-faith organizations, I have found many of the Jewish folks in such groups to be pretty liberal.


Of course, I could understand the Concordias, following the teachings of Martin Luther to be anti-semites but I would need to see studies that showed anti-semitism on secular college campuses.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]