Author Topic: What's Next For the ALPB?  (Read 6811 times)

Voelker

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Re: What's Next For the ALPB?
« Reply #105 on: May 03, 2018, 06:52:33 PM »
Dave Likeness writes:
The integrity of this forum would be increased if people had to use their real name.  Anonymous posters can throw hand-grenades and nobody is held accountable.
I comment:
Agreed. And we cannot evaluate the competence of the poster.
And by that do you mean cannot easily dox them?

Charles Austin

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Re: What's Next For the ALPB?
« Reply #106 on: May 03, 2018, 08:01:37 PM »
I do not know what dox means.
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Pr. Don Kirchner

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Charles Austin

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Re: What's Next For the ALPB?
« Reply #108 on: May 03, 2018, 09:44:30 PM »
Well, I have never done that. Never published private information, and never published anything with "malicious intent." I have, on occasion, sought public information to help me understand who a person is or whence they come.
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J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: What's Next For the ALPB?
« Reply #109 on: May 03, 2018, 11:51:42 PM »
I agree with you on that. Lutherans use a different definition than Roman Catholics or Orthodox, so we have two sacraments while they have seven.

My professors for Confessions (Eric Gritch, Scott Gustafson, and Robert Jensen) all taught that Lutherans have three Sacraments:  Baptism, Confession & Absolution, and Eucharist and possibly "three and a half" or four; the final being Ordination.

Teaching that was difficult, exacerbated by resources from Lutheran Brotherhood which perpetuated the "two Sacraments" mythology.

The fact is that Lutherans are a bridge church as Franklin Clark Fry described as "not quite Catholic and not really Protestant"; or more recently as Carl Braaten said "Catholic without being Roman, Orthodox without being Eastern, and Evangelical without being fundamentalist".

So celebrate this  unique place in Christendom and cherish the three Sacraments--or "three and half" or four.
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: What's Next For the ALPB?
« Reply #110 on: May 04, 2018, 03:03:21 AM »
I agree with you on that. Lutherans use a different definition than Roman Catholics or Orthodox, so we have two sacraments while they have seven.

My professors for Confessions (Eric Gritch, Scott Gustafson, and Robert Jensen) all taught that Lutherans have three Sacraments:  Baptism, Confession & Absolution, and Eucharist and possibly "three and a half" or four; the final being Ordination.


That was discussed at seminary. It seems clear that Luther considered Confession & Absolution to be under Baptism. There is no command from Christ for ordination, so there are some problems with considering that a sacrament.
"The church Ö had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Voelker

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Re: What's Next For the ALPB?
« Reply #111 on: May 04, 2018, 11:43:06 AM »
Well, I have never done that. Never published private information, and never published anything with "malicious intent." I have, on occasion, sought public information to help me understand who a person is or whence they come.
Good to know. That still comes across as rather creepy. It is of note that you're obviously in disagreement with Pr Tibbetts' comment above, as your comments here and in the past show that you really don't care what someone actually says, but instead invest your interest in who they are, making your judgements accordingly. That's sad, unfair, and explains why you often get fritzed when people take the words you post as they are written.

gan ainm

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Re: What's Next For the ALPB?
« Reply #112 on: May 04, 2018, 12:04:37 PM »
Well, I have never done that. Never published private information, and never published anything with "malicious intent." I have, on occasion, sought public information to help me understand who a person is or whence they come.
Good to know. That still comes across as rather creepy. It is of note that you're obviously in disagreement with Pr Tibbetts' comment above, as your comments here and in the past show that you really don't care what someone actually says, but instead invest your interest in who they are, making your judgements accordingly. That's sad, unfair, and explains why you often get fritzed when people take the words you post as they are written.

I wonder if posting the contents, actual and/or paraphrased, of a private message (as sent from one in this forum to another in this forum) counts as publishing private information?  Hmmmm

I wonder if the bots and spiders that roam the internet gathering information are a sufficient reason to keep ones name and other information private on this forum and others?  Hmmmm

I wonder if all anonymous posters are nefarious by definition?   Hmmmm  That certainly does not sound like best construction to me for those who desire to focus on who rather than what.  But best construction is obviously not a value to all who post here ... and that is my best construction with the observable facts. 


Mark Brown

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Re: What's Next For the ALPB?
« Reply #113 on: May 04, 2018, 12:18:56 PM »

...We have almost nobody who posts from a perspective of contemporary worship in a Lutheran congregation.  And to a large extent, if we include "blended worship", those congregations and pastors represent an outsized percentage of Lutherans in Sunday worship in America.  How could they be invited to participate in a meaningful way? 
 
...We have very few international posters on items of global Lutheran importance...
Dave Benke

That first clip goes to the elephant in the room.  The real church-within-a-church, one that has its own rites and ceremonies, more and more its own formation often absent anything but the barest contact with the Small Catechism, and which tends to join with various para-church ministries instead of the joint ministries of the church they are part of, is that "contemporary" one.  There are good arguments that this is fine.  There are also good arguments that this is scandalous.  How much of the lack of participation is simply the recognition of a real split?  It might not even be a split of "doctrine" (although intuitively lex orandi lex credendi would say that it is even if we can't ID it).  But pragmatically, how does the church of Nashville and Relevance, mesh with the church of the Ages?  Other than something like the Jansenist peace where everyone agreed that for a generation they just would not talk or publish on those matters and let God and conscience sort it out.

The second one forces me to ask does the "A" in "ALPB" mean anything?  And that is not that international might not be interesting and have something to say, but if any mission is too broad it goes nowhere.  America is broad enough as it is and losing the "unum" from the emphasis on the "pluribus".

When ALPB was founded there were clear boundaries of what "A" and "L" meant.  Today, not so much.  Part of that continuing mission might be less publicity of what is known, but a making known what we today intuit or hide in shadows and open secrets.  A bringing into the light what is now in the dark.  What does it mean to be an "American Lutheran"?  How are these practices either part of a living confession, a necessary break with a confession?  Can we admit these things, or still prefer the shadows?

Steve_Shipman

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Re: What's Next For the ALPB?
« Reply #114 on: May 04, 2018, 04:54:35 PM »
As a member of the ALPB board, let me introduce a tiny but real issue. We are financially a very marginal operation. What can we be doing that will meet a significant need among North American Lutherans (and perhaps also the wider Lutheran family) while also being financially viable? Perhaps even something that will motivate either sales or financial support of the organization. I know, so mundane and lacking in faith! But also quite practical.
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gan ainm

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Re: What's Next For the ALPB?
« Reply #115 on: May 04, 2018, 05:21:34 PM »
As a member of the ALPB board, let me introduce a tiny but real issue. We are financially a very marginal operation. What can we be doing that will meet a significant need among North American Lutherans (and perhaps also the wider Lutheran family) while also being financially viable? Perhaps even something that will motivate either sales or financial support of the organization. I know, so mundane and lacking in faith! But also quite practical.

Is there somewhere on the ALPB that shows a balance sheet, i.e. expenses and income, that we could look at?  Also maybe something about the purpose and expected outcomes of the ALPB.  Might provoke some ideas. 

Not related to the ALPB, just one example of a well managed organization that stays in the black and might provide some ideas:  I'm a member of a club that has a large clubhouse with kitchen and bathrooms and meeting rooms with tables and chairs, TVs, a fishing lake, multiple pistol/rifle shooting ranges of 7 through 100 yards with covered firing positions and noise barriers, a shotgun trap facility, an archery range, and camping spaces, probably 50 acres or so.  Dues are minimal, less than $100 per year per member.  All positions are volunteers with zero pay.  All facility improvements are done by the members.   I think the key is volunteers who are willing to contribute time and talent as well as a few dollars.


John_Hannah

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Re: What's Next For the ALPB?
« Reply #116 on: May 04, 2018, 05:47:00 PM »
As a member of the ALPB board, let me introduce a tiny but real issue. We are financially a very marginal operation. What can we be doing that will meet a significant need among North American Lutherans (and perhaps also the wider Lutheran family) while also being financially viable? Perhaps even something that will motivate either sales or financial support of the organization. I know, so mundane and lacking in faith! But also quite practical.

Excellent analysis, Steve!

It is understandable that no one is getting rich from those lurkers here who do not subscribe but enjoy our generosity in offering this <alpb.org> at no cost.

What is actually the case is that no one is getting rich from those hard working subscribers who pay their hard earned money so that we can publish and distribute the FORUM package as they stay abreast of affairs in their beloved church.

This is the fact.  Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

John_Hannah

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Re: What's Next For the ALPB?
« Reply #117 on: May 04, 2018, 05:50:43 PM »
As a member of the ALPB board, let me introduce a tiny but real issue. We are financially a very marginal operation. What can we be doing that will meet a significant need among North American Lutherans (and perhaps also the wider Lutheran family) while also being financially viable? Perhaps even something that will motivate either sales or financial support of the organization. I know, so mundane and lacking in faith! But also quite practical.

Is there somewhere on the ALPB that shows a balance sheet, i.e. expenses and income, that we could look at?  Also maybe something about the purpose and expected outcomes of the ALPB.  Might provoke some ideas. 

Not related to the ALPB, just one example of a well managed organization that stays in the black and might provide some ideas:  I'm a member of a club that has a large clubhouse with kitchen and bathrooms and meeting rooms with tables and chairs, TVs, a fishing lake, multiple pistol/rifle shooting ranges of 7 through 100 yards with covered firing positions and noise barriers, a shotgun trap facility, an archery range, and camping spaces, probably 50 acres or so.  Dues are minimal, less than $100 per year per member.  All positions are volunteers with zero pay.  All facility improvements are done by the members.   I think the key is volunteers who are willing to contribute time and talent as well as a few dollars.

Almost all of our work is done by volunteers.  Our "dues" are much less than $100.00. A bit less than $30.00.

Peace, JOHN
President, ALPB
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

Charles Austin

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Re: What's Next For the ALPB?
« Reply #118 on: May 04, 2018, 06:06:21 PM »
Raise the dues. $100 seems appropriate.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

Steven W Bohler

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Re: What's Next For the ALPB?
« Reply #119 on: May 04, 2018, 07:00:31 PM »
As a member of the ALPB board, let me introduce a tiny but real issue. We are financially a very marginal operation. What can we be doing that will meet a significant need among North American Lutherans (and perhaps also the wider Lutheran family) while also being financially viable? Perhaps even something that will motivate either sales or financial support of the organization. I know, so mundane and lacking in faith! But also quite practical.

Excellent analysis, Steve!

It is understandable that no one is getting rich from those lurkers here who do not subscribe but enjoy our generosity in offering this <alpb.org> at no cost.

What is actually the case is that no one is getting rich from those hard working subscribers who pay their hard earned money so that we can publish and distribute the FORUM package as they stay abreast of affairs in their beloved church.

This is the fact.  Peace, JOHN

Of course, one could also argue that those of us who are not subscribers increase the traffic here and so perhaps lead to others purchasing subscriptions and/or other materials.  That is, we are not a drag on this forum but a draw, a benefit, a plus. We generously contribute here for nothing.  Except the occasional kick in the pants or insult from moderators and subscribers.  :)