Author Topic: Finding faith in the new progressive movement  (Read 2965 times)

Charles Austin

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Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

Charles Austin

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Re: Finding faith in the new progressive movement
« Reply #46 on: December 25, 2017, 03:53:32 AM »
The Lord Jesus cannot be divided or compartmentalized.
   The Jesus who asks us to care for the poor, love our neighbor and create a more humane society is present even if those things are never mentioned.
   The Jesus who came to die for our sins is present, even if confession and absolution are not part of the service (as they are often not part of the worship on Christmas eve, save for the Sacrament), or if the sermon is not one calling for repentance.
   We meet the full, complete Jesus every time.
   And practically, the Jesus we meet comes to us in a variety of services, over a period of time, and in different ways for different people at different times.
   Often, I am sure, someone attending a particular service might be miffed because they "like" their favored view of Jesus and don't care to hear about the Jesus who sends us out to do difficult things in his name, like care for the poor or - yes - reform and create a better society, not to bring in the Kingdom of God (that's His work), but to show love for our neighbor. And some would rather hear of those things than of repentance and amendment of their own life. But the whole message is always present.
   Therefore, to say "The Jesus who came to die for our sins was absent" from any Christian service where the Lord and his Divine/Earthly life and story are celebrated is simply wrong and an arrogant judgment based on personal preference rather than the whole witness of Scripture and the full teaching of The Church.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

Pasgolf

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Re: Finding faith in the new progressive movement
« Reply #47 on: December 25, 2017, 07:38:41 AM »
https://www.thecatholicthing.org/2017/12/25/the-ox-the-ass-and-us/

Blessed Christmas to everyone on this forum.
Mark (retired pastor, golfs the pastures) Renner

Dave Benke

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Re: Finding faith in the new progressive movement
« Reply #48 on: December 25, 2017, 08:35:13 AM »
https://www.thecatholicthing.org/2017/12/25/the-ox-the-ass-and-us/

Blessed Christmas to everyone on this forum.

Superior article - thanks for sharing it - I'm thinking of the the girl who played "Burrito" in our Christmas play yesterday, figuratively carrying Mary from Nazareth to Bethlehem and then becoming the reason behind the choice of the manger for the birth of the baby Jesus.  It all fits! 

Blessed Christmas to all,

Dave Benke

Charles Austin

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Re: Finding faith in the new progressive movement
« Reply #49 on: December 25, 2017, 09:11:32 AM »
A charming meditation from a man who many people did not know could be whimsical and charming and who loved animals. He had a picture of his cat in his office in Rome when he was Cardinal Ratzinger.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

Pr. Don Kirchner

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Re: Finding faith in the new progressive movement
« Reply #50 on: December 25, 2017, 10:32:32 AM »
https://www.thecatholicthing.org/2017/12/25/the-ox-the-ass-and-us/

Blessed Christmas to everyone on this forum.

Superior article - thanks for sharing it...

Blessed Christmas to all,

And to you all.
Pr. Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it’s not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

gan ainm

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Re: Finding faith in the new progressive movement
« Reply #51 on: December 25, 2017, 02:08:34 PM »
"God hates visionary dreamers" a Bonhoeffer quotation:

“Those who love their dream of a Christian community more than they love the Christian community itself become destroyers of that Christian community even though their personal intentions may be ever so honest, earnest and sacrificial. God hates this wishful dreaming because it makes the dreamer proud and pretentious. Those who dream of this idolized community demand that it be fulfilled by God, by others and by themselves. They enter the community of Christians with their demands set up by their own law, and judge one another and God accordingly. It is not we who build. Christ builds the church. Whoever is mindful to build the church is surely well on the way to destroying it, for he will build a temple to idols without wishing or knowing it. We must confess he builds. We must proclaim, he builds. We must pray to him, and he will build. We do not know his plan. We cannot see whether he is building or pulling down. It may be that the times which by human standards are the times of collapse are for him the great times of construction. It may be that the times which from a human point are great times for the church are times when it's pulled down. It is a great comfort which Jesus gives to his church. You confess, preach, bear witness to me, and I alone will build where it pleases me. Do not meddle in what is not your providence. Do what is given to you, and do it well, and you will have done enough.... Live together in the forgiveness of your sins. Forgive each other every day from the bottom of your hearts.”

readselerttoo

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Re: Finding faith in the new progressive movement
« Reply #52 on: December 25, 2017, 07:26:36 PM »
The Lord Jesus cannot be divided or compartmentalized.
   The Jesus who asks us to care for the poor, love our neighbor and create a more humane society is present even if those things are never mentioned.
   The Jesus who came to die for our sins is present, even if confession and absolution are not part of the service (as they are often not part of the worship on Christmas eve, save for the Sacrament), or if the sermon is not one calling for repentance.
   We meet the full, complete Jesus every time.
   And practically, the Jesus we meet comes to us in a variety of services, over a period of time, and in different ways for different people at different times.
   Often, I am sure, someone attending a particular service might be miffed because they "like" their favored view of Jesus and don't care to hear about the Jesus who sends us out to do difficult things in his name, like care for the poor or - yes - reform and create a better society, not to bring in the Kingdom of God (that's His work), but to show love for our neighbor. And some would rather hear of those things than of repentance and amendment of their own life. But the whole message is always present.
   Therefore, to say "The Jesus who came to die for our sins was absent" from any Christian service where the Lord and his Divine/Earthly life and story are celebrated is simply wrong and an arrogant judgment based on personal preference rather than the whole witness of Scripture and the full teaching of The Church.

Where in the Bible does Jesus call for us to care for the poor?  Love of neighbor was not new to Jesus.  So what is unique to Jesus?  I would say that his death and resurrection for my salvation was big stuff...bigger than helping the poor (which isn't unique to Jesus anyway).  He (Jesus) was made to be sin for us through his death on the cross.  He remains for all time the suffering Servant for each and every one of us.   He suffers for the poor and in place of the poor so that they/we might live in peace and comfort forever.  Even now in poverty Jesus is with us as the one who has conquered death and through that we receive his peace and comfort even now.  Or else the angels' song to the shepherds is a lie.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 07:37:25 PM by George Rahn »

Eileen Smith

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Re: Finding faith in the new progressive movement
« Reply #53 on: December 26, 2017, 03:06:44 PM »
https://www.thecatholicthing.org/2017/12/25/the-ox-the-ass-and-us/

Blessed Christmas to everyone on this forum.

Thank you for sharing this beautiful piece with us. 

JMiller1

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Re: Finding faith in the new progressive movement
« Reply #54 on: January 29, 2018, 08:11:53 AM »
Never let it be said I can't admit when I am wrong. Seems bishop was doing something after all....
When he wrote, "...and an ever-growing distrust of leaders, icons and institutions" surely he knew the reason.