Author Topic: A politician and God  (Read 3463 times)

Terry W Culler

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Re: A politician and God
« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2017, 08:35:46 PM »
I suspect that many people who call themselves evangelicals having little to no understanding of what that meant historically.  Many of them no doubt think it means they are conservative and they confound that with being Republican.  Many of the evangelicals I've met seem to have little idea of what theological conservatism actually means.
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John_Hannah

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Re: A politician and God
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2017, 02:40:17 PM »
An interesting editorial in the Times. As a life long Lutheran, I have always suspected that the modern "politico-evangelical-conservatism" is actually rank liberalism. Someone from the inside confirms that. Enthusiasm for a religion without God.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/15/opinion/sunday/war-christmas-evangelicals.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fopinion&action=click&contentCollection=opinion&region=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=7&pgtype=sectionfront&_r=0

Peace, JOHN
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RDPreus

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Re: A politician and God
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2017, 02:57:44 PM »
An interesting editorial in the Times. As a life long Lutheran, I have always suspected that the modern "politico-evangelical-conservatism" is actually rank liberalism. Someone from the inside confirms that. Enthusiasm for a religion without God.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/15/opinion/sunday/war-christmas-evangelicals.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fopinion&action=click&contentCollection=opinion&region=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=7&pgtype=sectionfront&_r=0

Peace, JOHN

It would have been better had the critique of the modern "politico-evangelical-conservatism" been written from the perspective of a conservative.  As it is, the editorial loses much credibility by calling Trump a race baiter and arguing against the second amendment.  Does Fox News distort the true meaning of Christmas?  Yes, it does.  I grew up in a home that read U. S. News and World Report.  Every Christmas they ran an editorial that gave us the "true" meaning of Christmas, and of course it had nothing to do with the incarnation of God.  Which just goes to show that folks will distort this holy day in service to their own agenda, whether it is liberal or conservative, nationalistic or socialistic, making money or spending other people's money.

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: A politician and God
« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2017, 05:57:17 PM »
An interesting editorial in the Times.


Oh, great line: "luxuriates in divisive rhetoric and manages only the barest veneer of religiosity." 

I would suggest that Ms. Sullivan look in the mirror the next time she uses it, for her essay is filled (and proudly, as is typical with "progressive Christians") by her own luxuriating. 

Pax, Steven+
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John_Hannah

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Re: A politician and God
« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2017, 06:31:43 PM »
An interesting editorial in the Times.


Oh, great line: "luxuriates in divisive rhetoric and manages only the barest veneer of religiosity." 

I would suggest that Ms. Sullivan look in the mirror the next time she uses it, for her essay is filled (and proudly, as is typical with "progressive Christians") by her own luxuriating. 

Pax, Steven+

STEVEN

"Oh, great line: "luxuriates in divisive rhetoric and manages only the barest veneer of religiosity." 

--Nonetheless, her statement remains quite true in my opinion. Ms. Sullivan is not running for high office, like president or senator. (I know nothing about Ms. Sullivan except to agree with her assessment of "creedal devolution" for the sake of electoral politics.)    :)

Peace, JOHN

« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 09:00:58 PM by John_Hannah »
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DCharlton

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Re: A politician and God
« Reply #50 on: December 17, 2017, 06:51:40 PM »
I'd suggest your comment is more true of "fundamentalists" than "evangelicals" -- there, it is true that anyone who is basically to the right of the reporter, however slightly, and disagrees on secular politics, is considered a "fundamentalist."  Fundamentalist is no more than a pejorative anymore.

In the American context, Evangelicals and Fundamentalists where distinct groups.   According to Roger Olson, this began to change about 1980, when the media accepted Jerry Falwell's claim to be a spokesman for Evangelicals without knowing that he was actually a Fundamentalist.  That confusion persists to this day.
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Terry W Culler

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Re: A politician and God
« Reply #51 on: December 18, 2017, 09:28:49 AM »
In truth, fundamentalism is another term that conveys little true information.  More often used as an epithet than a descriptor, it tells me little or nothing about an individual's theological views beyond inerrantism  which is the common property of evangelicals as well as the LC-MS, WELS, AFLC, ELS, AALC, PCA, ARP, OPC, etc. etc.  We either need new and more accurate adjectives or we ought to just drop it altogether.
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Charles Austin

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Re: A politician and God
« Reply #52 on: December 18, 2017, 09:38:50 AM »
I am pondering a resolution ("memorial" in ELCA parlance) that would suggest we drop "Evangelical" from our denominational name because of what the word has come to mean in "The World."
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Heading home from Sioux City after three days and a reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: A politician and God
« Reply #53 on: December 18, 2017, 09:40:40 AM »
In truth, fundamentalism... tells me little or nothing about an individual's theological views beyond inerrantism  which is the common property of evangelicals as well as the LC-MS, WELS, AFLC, ELS, AALC, PCA, ARP, OPC, etc. etc.

Hardly. As expressed time and time again, also related to the creation issues recently discussed hereon, there is a different understanding of the dynamic involved.
Don Kirchner

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Norman Teigen

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Re: A politician and God
« Reply #54 on: December 18, 2017, 11:48:29 AM »
Is Trump a blessing or a curse for conservatives? One of the views expressed here is that "Trump sees that the church is a big part of what made America great, and he sees that the state persecution that President Obama began hurts the country. I hope that he sees more, sees Christ as his savior. But in his role as Caesar, protecting our rights is quite enough."  Read more by clicking on the following link:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/18/opinion/trump-religious-conservatives-evangelicals.html?mabReward=ALS1&recid=0xuHZW1kq7r3lt3iIFxsQkZa20N&recp=2&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&region=CColumn&module=Recommendation&src=rechp&WT.nav=RecEngine&_r=0
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 11:58:01 AM by Norman Teigen »
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DCharlton

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Re: A politician and God
« Reply #55 on: December 18, 2017, 12:13:19 PM »
I am pondering a resolution ("memorial" in ELCA parlance) that would suggest we drop "Evangelical" from our denominational name because of what the word has come to mean in "The World."

Lutheran has its own baggage as more people associate Luther with anti-Semitism.  If we merge with TEC or the UCC the problem could be eliminated. 
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Dan Fienen

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Re: A politician and God
« Reply #56 on: December 18, 2017, 12:52:13 PM »
With the standard anti-Israeli rhetoric of progressives, what are they doing to combat anti-Semitism?  In establishing their oh so inclusive communities, do they have any room to include those who are not pro same sex marriage and have not adopted the "Homosexuality is just all right with me" credo?  Or is inclusiveness based on it doesn't really matter what you believe religiously so long as you are progressive orthodox socially and politically?
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DCharlton

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Re: A politician and God
« Reply #57 on: December 18, 2017, 01:06:44 PM »
With the standard anti-Israeli rhetoric of progressives, what are they doing to combat anti-Semitism? 

This is a concern that I and some of my colleagues attempted to raise with our PB recently.  It seems to me that the rhetoric about Islamophobia trumps opposition to anti-Semitism.  So if the anti-Semitism comes from white supremacists or neo-Nazis, we will name it and condemn it.

After the Pulse Nightclub massacre, a bishop warned people not to fall prey to Islamophobia by assuming that Islam was a motivating factor.  At the same time, that bishop said that we could be certain that gun rights advocates and opponents of SSM held some of the blame.   

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