Started by Donald_Kirchner, December 08, 2017, 09:55:49 AM
Quote from: Pasgolf on January 28, 2018, 09:08:38 PMSo, how do we use the language of the current knowledge base to communicate creation? If we cannot, what does that say about our credibility?
QuoteIn physics, the observer effect is the fact that simply observing a situation or phenomenon necessarily changes that phenomenon. This is often the result of instruments that, by necessity, alter the state of what they measure in some manner. A commonplace example is checking the pressure in an automobile tire; this is difficult to do without letting out some of the air, thus changing the pressure. Similarly, it is not possible to see any object without light hitting the object, and causing it to reflect that light. While the effects of observation are sometimes negligible, the object still experiences a change. This effect can be observed in many domains of physics, but can sometimes be reduced to insignificance by using different instruments or observation techniques.An especially unusual version of the observer effect occurs in quantum mechanics, as best demonstrated by the double-slit experiment. Physicists have found that even passive observation of quantum phenomena (by changing the test apparatus and passively 'ruling out' all but one possibility), can actually change the measured result; the 1998 Weizmann experiment is a particularly famous example. These findings have led to a popular misconception that observation by a conscious mind can directly affect reality, though this has been rejected by mainstream science. This misconception is rooted in a poor understanding of the quantum wave function ψ and the quantum measurement process
Quote from: Pasgolf on January 29, 2018, 11:17:03 AMWhat I think is presently lacking is the requisite language for speaking coherently about creation as an act of God in terms that can and do account for the significant movement in understanding of the sciences. When a position is taken that a process description that is dependent upon a cosmology and chronology, that is easily refuted by observation, must be adhered to in order to accept the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, something has gone radically wrong. When someone indicates, "If you don't accept _________, then you can't possibly accept the resurrection," the logical response is, "Well alright then, I can't." In attempting to protect the purity of a particular narrative a massive barrier to trust is erected where a word of comfort is desperately needed. I am trying to explore and trying to communicate that there may be contemporary language that does as well for our time as did the liturgical development of the creation narrative for the Babylonian exiled Israelites. What that language is, anthropic principle, algorithm, being observed into observableness by the creator...? The key for me would be to have contemporary language evoke the same worshipful sense as was evoked by the liturgical narrative for the Israelites who first heard it.
Quote from: Charles Austin on January 29, 2018, 03:22:09 PMIt is a great read, Bishop Benke, especially near the end where the scientist's theories are spelled out. But some people in this august forum did not find it agreeable, according to comments on another thread.
Quote from: Pasgolf on January 29, 2018, 12:43:34 PMThe context is the current social order, both materialist dispirited and hyper gullible. It manifests inside and outside the church. So, all of the above and then some. I like your notion of metaphor as an approach to proximate truth. I also resonate with your hesitancy simply to transliterate. That can get kludgy in a hurry. Thanks as well for your additional thoughts. I will continue to ponder and test.
Quote from: Dave Likeness on January 30, 2018, 10:30:47 PMThere are several places in the Old Testament to learn more about God's Creation of the UniverseGenesis 1 & 2Psalm 104Isaiah 40:12-31Jeremiah 38 & 39Of course there are other places which describe God's creation of the heavens and the earth in the Holy Scriptures These four listed here are a good place to start because they are more thana few verses.