Poll

How are you observing November 26th in your congregation?

Christ the King
16 (72.7%)
Last Sunday of the Church Year
6 (27.3%)
Advent I
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 20

Author Topic: November 26: Christ the King? Last Sunday? Advent?  (Read 2021 times)

Eileen Smith

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November 26: Christ the King? Last Sunday? Advent?
« on: November 07, 2017, 08:09:17 AM »
Knowing how much everyone on this Forum loves polls, a new poll.  Several congregations have announced that they are moving the Advent I to November 26 allowing Advent to come to a close on December 17th.  (The start of the O Antiphons  :-\) )   There will be no morning service on December 24th with Christmas Eve services that night. 

A friend asked if I'd ever seen this done.  I haven't.  Have you?  What are you doing? 


Harvey_Mozolak

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Re: November 26: Christ the King? Last Sunday? Advent?
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2017, 08:24:34 AM »
Intriguing...  I have no parish in which to experiment anymore... but a thought...  as you probably know, there were suggestions of moving advent back to somewhere in the beginning of November and making this long season of Christmas observed in a pre-sense all through December culminating in the 24th or if you want to hang onto some thread of the past-- the 25th.  And then dropping it like pine needles thereabouts.  But that did not catch on anymore that establishing a standing date for Easter and the Lenten Season.  But some do move the date of Holy Cross, St Michael and All Angels, Reformation, All SS and Epiphany to a nearest Sunday and call them All Saints Sunday and the like.  Hmmm.
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Charles Austin

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Re: November 26: Christ the King? Last Sunday? Advent?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2017, 09:53:25 AM »
I appreciate the apocalyptic (in a good sense) rumblings in the end of the Church year and Christ's reign at the end.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: November 26: Christ the King? Last Sunday? Advent?
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2017, 11:12:07 AM »
Last Sunday of Church Year A and Christ the King A.


As I recall in my 41 years of ministry, when Sunday (evening) was Christmas Eve, the morning service was 4 Advent. The evening was Christmas Eve. In Hebrew thinking, the new day begins at sundown.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

revjagow

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Re: November 26: Christ the King? Last Sunday? Advent?
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2017, 11:19:47 AM »
I appreciate the apocalyptic (in a good sense) rumblings in the end of the Church year and Christ's reign at the end.

I'll second that. Sometimes on "Christ the King" we have a hymn sing where people select hymns from each church season. I've found this a good way to teach the cycle of the church year too.
Soli Deo Gloria!

Weedon

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Re: November 26: Christ the King? Last Sunday? Advent?
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2017, 11:56:25 AM »
It also introduces the question of the readings for December 24th. I could have sworn that I remembered reading somewhere that when this situation occurs that the Fourth Sunday of Advent falls on December 24, then in the morning service the readings used are the Eve of the Nativity (Vigil of the Nativity) readings (Is 7:10–14; 1 John 4:7–16; Matt 1:18-25). But I can’t for the life of me remember where I read this instruction. Our materials give the fourth Sunday readings as normal, but it still niggles me that this isn’t exactly right.

Keith Falk

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Re: November 26: Christ the King? Last Sunday? Advent?
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2017, 11:58:15 AM »
It also introduces the question of the readings for December 24th. I could have sworn that I remembered reading somewhere that when this situation occurs that the Fourth Sunday of Advent falls on December 24, then in the morning service the readings used are the Eve of the Nativity (Vigil of the Nativity) readings (Is 7:10–14; 1 John 4:7–16; Matt 1:18-25). But I can’t for the life of me remember where I read this instruction. Our materials give the fourth Sunday readings as normal, but it still niggles me that this isn’t exactly right.


If you happen to find the source, let us know please!
Rev. Keith Falk, STS

Eileen Smith

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Re: November 26: Christ the King? Last Sunday? Advent?
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2017, 12:23:05 PM »
It also introduces the question of the readings for December 24th. I could have sworn that I remembered reading somewhere that when this situation occurs that the Fourth Sunday of Advent falls on December 24, then in the morning service the readings used are the Eve of the Nativity (Vigil of the Nativity) readings (Is 7:10–14; 1 John 4:7–16; Matt 1:18-25). But I can’t for the life of me remember where I read this instruction. Our materials give the fourth Sunday readings as normal, but it still niggles me that this isn’t exactly right.

That would be interesting to know (if you have the source).  The Vanderbilt site does allow the Isaiah/1 John/Matthew readings.  My question is more to when Advent starts in a year such as this, with Christmas on a Monday.  On what is normally the church year, giving four full weeks prior to Christmas Eve, or the Sunday closest to St. Andrew, allowing that Christmas Eve falls on a Sunday.  As such, Christmas Eve would have only evening services - nothing in the morning.   No criticism comes with this question - but simply curiosity.   

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: November 26: Christ the King? Last Sunday? Advent?
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2017, 12:31:54 PM »
It also introduces the question of the readings for December 24th. I could have sworn that I remembered reading somewhere that when this situation occurs that the Fourth Sunday of Advent falls on December 24, then in the morning service the readings used are the Eve of the Nativity (Vigil of the Nativity) readings (Is 7:10–14; 1 John 4:7–16; Matt 1:18-25). But I can’t for the life of me remember where I read this instruction. Our materials give the fourth Sunday readings as normal, but it still niggles me that this isn’t exactly right.

That would be interesting to know (if you have the source).  The Vanderbilt site does allow the Isaiah/1 John/Matthew readings.  My question is more to when Advent starts in a year such as this, with Christmas on a Monday.  On what is normally the church year, giving four full weeks prior to Christmas Eve, or the Sunday closest to St. Andrew, allowing that Christmas Eve falls on a Sunday.  As such, Christmas Eve would have only evening services - nothing in the morning.   No criticism comes with this question - but simply curiosity.


The word "eve," like the word "evening," originally referred to the "night before," i.e., after sunset. Thus, "Christmas Eve" could be understood as referring only to the evening before Christmas. However, the definition has been expanded to include the whole day before.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

jebutler

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Re: November 26: Christ the King? Last Sunday? Advent?
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2017, 02:14:02 PM »
Knowing how much everyone on this Forum loves polls, a new poll.  Several congregations have announced that they are moving the Advent I to November 26 allowing Advent to come to a close on December 17th.  (The start of the O Antiphons  :-\) )   There will be no morning service on December 24th with Christmas Eve services that night. 

A friend asked if I'd ever seen this done.  I haven't.  Have you?  What are you doing?

November 26 is Christ the King/Last Sunday of the Church Year

December 24 is the 4th Sunday in Advent.

That evening is Christmas Eve.

I've never heard of a congregation 'moving' the Sunday in Advent.

The truth we preach is not an abstract thing. The truth is a Person. The goodness we preach is not an ideal quality. The goodness is Someone who is good. The love we preach is God himself in Christ. --H. Grady Davis

Weedon

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Re: November 26: Christ the King? Last Sunday? Advent?
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2017, 02:20:35 PM »
The first Sunday in Advent is always the Sunday nearest St. Andrew’s day. 

Harvey_Mozolak

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Re: November 26: Christ the King? Last Sunday? Advent?
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2017, 02:22:02 PM »
Yes, I have always been a liturgical freak and to an nth degree and would probably never move Advent 4.... and always observed Christmas Day... shucks my mother church the SELC (Slovaks for you younger ones) always observed Second and Third Day of Christmas on the 26 and 27th.... maybe only Will knows those from vicarage but they may have e been gone by then... BUT the last writer said: "I've never heard of a congregation 'moving' the Sunday in Advent."  BUT we have all experienced the congregation that has moved away from Advent Four, right?!  We can't properly observe Christmas these days so how can we possibly observe Advent properly in many places and parishes....??
Harvey S. Mozolak
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Mike in Pennsylvania

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Re: November 26: Christ the King? Last Sunday? Advent?
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2017, 02:36:09 PM »
We are observing Advent 4 in the morning but only having one service instead of the usual three.
Otherwise we'd be having 7 services in the span of 28 hours (3 in the am, 3 in the pm, 1 Christmas morning).  That's a little much.
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LCMS87

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Re: November 26: Christ the King? Last Sunday? Advent?
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2017, 02:40:10 PM »
Yes, I have always been a liturgical freak and to an nth degree and would probably never move Advent 4.... and always observed Christmas Day... shucks my mother church the SELC (Slovaks for you younger ones) always observed Second and Third Day of Christmas on the 26 and 27th.... maybe only Will knows those from vicarage but they may have e been gone by then... BUT the last writer said: "I've never heard of a congregation 'moving' the Sunday in Advent."  BUT we have all experienced the congregation that has moved away from Advent Four, right?!  We can't properly observe Christmas these days so how can we possibly observe Advent properly in many places and parishes....??

Never.  There may be misguided members of the congregation who only come to worship in the evening when the Fourth Sunday in Advent is on the 24th, but the Sunday morning service uses the propers for the Fourth Sunday in Advent.  (Of course if the book with full rubrics for LSB ever comes out and provides for a different practice, I will walk together on the road my brothers tread, but Advent One is not movable.  It's tied to St. Andrew's Day.  And the celebration of Christmas begins after sunset on the 24th.)   

Of course, I don't approve of celebrating Independence Day with fireworks on the 3rd or 5th either, or moving trick-or-treating to some day other than 31 October.  And the Armistice that ended the World War is marked on the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month.  I have no problem with Veterans Day on the second Monday in November, but that's not Armistice Day. [/curmudgeonly rant off.]

JEdwards

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Re: November 26: Christ the King? Last Sunday? Advent?
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2017, 02:44:04 PM »
Several years ago, I happened to be at a Catholic mass on Sunday, December 17th.  In reminding his parishioners of their obligations for the following weekend (essentially, to attend worship for  BOTH Advent 4 and Christmas Eve or Day), the priest stressed the distinctive message and celebration for each event, using the example of someone with a birthday on the 24th or 25th.  The gist of it was that, as special as Christmas is, most people would find some way to honor the birthday in a distinct way.

Peace,
Jon