Author Topic: Installation Question  (Read 3624 times)

Steven W Bohler

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Installation Question
« on: September 30, 2017, 08:57:38 PM »
I just received word that one of the parishes of our Crookston Circuit will be installing its new pastor on October 15 at 10:00 AM.  Which means that literally NONE of the other pastors of the circuit will be able to attend, as we all will be in our own churches leading services.  To make matters worse (at least for me and my congregations), the pastor-elect is a former vicar of mine at Crookston/Eldred.  So, my question (especially to LCMS pastors here): is this common, to have the installation at such a time?  It has always been my experience that these services have been afternoon or early evening to accommodate the neighboring pastors (and their parishioners, should they wish to attend).  I have just send word to our circuit visitor, expressing my profound disappointment at this scheduling choice.

Dave Likeness

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Re: Installation Question
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2017, 09:16:11 PM »
The practice of installing an LCMS pastor in the Sunday Morning Service has occurred some times
in our circuits in the Central Illinois District.   It was said that the intention was to encourage all the
parish members to attend the installation. The excuse was that most members would not attend
a worship service in the morning and another one in the afternoon or evening.  This might be true
if the parish has been vacant for a long time.   This is perhaps another case of LCMS adiaphoria.

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Installation Question
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2017, 09:44:06 PM »
Which congregation? Who's being installed?
Don Kirchner

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Steven W Bohler

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Re: Installation Question
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2017, 10:14:57 PM »
Rev. Ron Hobbie will be installed as pastor of the Ada/Green Meadow parish on October 15.

Birkholz

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Re: Installation Question
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2017, 10:29:07 PM »
This seems to be happening more frequently.  We had a similar situation in our circuit a few years back.  As noted above the reason given was so that members of the congregation could be present, who were not likely to come to a service at another time.
Pastor Mark Birkholz
Faith Evangelical Lutheran Church
Oak Lawn, IL
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Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Installation Question
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2017, 10:37:58 PM »
Rev. Ron Hobbie will be installed as pastor of the Ada/Green Meadow parish on October 15.

Oh.
Don Kirchner

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Steven W Bohler

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Re: Installation Question
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2017, 10:44:47 PM »
It sure makes it hard for the Church to say it's Amen to the call/acceptance when it is scheduled like this.  You would be hard-pressed to find a more "congregational-ist" pastor in the LCMS than me, but this seems like we've fallen into the other side of the ditch than I typically fear.  So, congregational members won't come to a special service?  Then that is their problem.  But now that parish has effectively taken the Church at large out of the call/acceptance/affirmation.  Bad practice, I say.

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Installation Question
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2017, 10:51:53 PM »
Agreed. What does Fondow say about it?
Don Kirchner

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Mike in Pennsylvania

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Re: Installation Question
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2017, 07:17:25 AM »
I'm not LCMS, but I have seen this done occasionally in ELCA, LCMC and NALC parishes, for the same purported reason.  I share Pastor Bohler's dismay at any such trend.
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Dave Benke

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Re: Installation Question
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2017, 07:30:59 AM »
Our own alpb pastor Matt Staneck will be installed today as Pastor of St. John's Lutheran Church, Glendale, New York.  At 4:00 PM.  So others can be there.  I'm sure you'll all be there in prayer with us.

Let's take the case (in the LCMS) of an Assistant/Associate Pastor situation.  I have experienced those being given the shorter shrift for participation by other congregations, with the installation service being held on a Sunday morning. 

Either way, I agree with SW here.  Bad form.  Since we no longer have circuit counselors, the circuit visitor may have offered counsel but been rebuffed because counsel and common sense advice is not in his position description.  He's just a visitor.

Dave Benke

Steven W Bohler

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Re: Installation Question
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2017, 07:56:32 AM »
Our own alpb pastor Matt Staneck will be installed today as Pastor of St. John's Lutheran Church, Glendale, New York.  At 4:00 PM.  So others can be there.  I'm sure you'll all be there in prayer with us.

Let's take the case (in the LCMS) of an Assistant/Associate Pastor situation.  I have experienced those being given the shorter shrift for participation by other congregations, with the installation service being held on a Sunday morning. 

Either way, I agree with SW here.  Bad form.  Since we no longer have circuit counselors, the circuit visitor may have offered counsel but been rebuffed because counsel and common sense advice is not in his position description.  He's just a visitor.

Dave Benke

Yes, Dr. Benke, in correspondence last evening, our circuit visitor told me that he had given counsel to the congregations NOT to have the installation in the morning (and why not to do so, apparently).  But the congregations opted to "do their own thing".  Too bad, really.

FrPeters

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Re: Installation Question
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2017, 08:06:27 AM »
Somebody from District (DP) had to agree and authorize the installation.
Fr Larry Peters
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Dave Benke

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Re: Installation Question
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2017, 08:52:08 AM »
Somebody from District (DP) had to agree and authorize the installation.

An interesting point which involves the authorization form. 
a) the form is occasionally completed after the fact; the date is set, and the congregation sends in the info afterward.  Invites are sent out and all of that, but the form itself is taken care of later.
b) the form would not have, from my recollection, the time of the installation.  It would have only the date - October 1, 2017, for instance. 
c) since the circuit visitor counseled, unless there is a huge communication gap, the district president would be aware of both the date and the time.  That being said, other than persuasion, what's the district president going to do?  Put the congregation on restricted or suspended status?  As SW indicates, "doing their own thing" is within the rights of the congregation in a denomination that's fiercely congregational in polity.

 So it's about the power of persuasion, and not, at least in any way remotely helpful, about the district president refusing to authorize the installation due to the time of day of the installation.  In less fiercely congregational denominations, the district president, who would then most likely be termed a bishop, would actually be the person in charge of the arrangements for installations/ordinations.

Dave Benke

Charles Austin

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Re: Installation Question
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2017, 09:20:38 AM »
I believe we ELCAers generally have installations at times when area clergy and other congregations can be present. I have been to many, preached at a couple.
But if an installation is at the Sunday morning time, I think the presence of the bishop would represent the "larger church" and the bishop presiding at the installation would demonstrate that to all present. BTW, I think our New Jersey bishop is always present at an installation.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Article coming up in Lutheran Forum journal. Now would be a good time to subscribe.
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Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Installation Question
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2017, 09:31:07 AM »
Somebody from District (DP) had to agree and authorize the installation.

Is DP Fondow going to be there? What does he say about it?
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but itís not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs