Author Topic: Any Clinton supporters inclined to reconsider?  (Read 18471 times)

Marshall_Hahn

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Any Clinton supporters inclined to reconsider?
« on: October 21, 2016, 12:47:21 PM »
With the barrage of e-mails showing additional lies and subterfuge, FBI reports suggesting a "quid pro quo" offer from Clinton operatives, video of Clinton campaign workers boasting about breaking up Trump rallies and plans to commit voter fraud, have any Clinton supporters on this forum had second thoughts?

Marshall Hahn

James_Gale

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Re: Any Clinton supporters inclined to reconsider?
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2016, 01:58:14 PM »
With the barrage of e-mails showing additional lies and subterfuge, FBI reports suggesting a "quid pro quo" offer from Clinton operatives, video of Clinton campaign workers boasting about breaking up Trump rallies and plans to commit voter fraud, have any Clinton supporters on this forum had second thoughts?

Marshall Hahn


Most of my friends hold political views considerably to the left of mine.  Many have congratulated me on my opposition to Trump's candidacy.  The congratulations usually come along with a rant about Trump's treatment of women, his sleazy business practices, etc.  The rants generally do not include anything about policy.  I typically respond to such a rant by noting that the condemnations of Trump apply with equal force to Clinton and that I therefore assume that the person is not voting for Hillary.  The usual response is silence.  There is no good defense for Hillary Clinton's conduct, after all.  For reasons beyond my understanding, my left-leaning friends almost all are voting for Hillary.  The vast majority of my conservative friends are voting for someone other than Trump.


Can someone explain this phenomenon? 

Dan Fienen

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Re: Any Clinton supporters inclined to reconsider?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2016, 02:16:48 PM »
What is to be condemned in the strongest terms in Republicans is ignored in Democrats.  So long as you support unfettered abortion, LGBT rights (whatever they want  their rights to include) and approve of whatever the Feminist  Lobby pushes, all else is forgiven.  Progressivism covers  a multitude of  sins.  Proving that Trump is a jerk  automatically  nominates Clinton for sainthood.  Just read Pr. Austin's  posts for example.  Dramatic condemnation of Trump, by the by acknowledgement that  Clinton isn't  perfect but look at how bad Trump is.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
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JEdwards

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Re: Any Clinton supporters inclined to reconsider?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2016, 02:21:16 PM »
With the barrage of e-mails showing additional lies and subterfuge, FBI reports suggesting a "quid pro quo" offer from Clinton operatives, video of Clinton campaign workers boasting about breaking up Trump rallies and plans to commit voter fraud, have any Clinton supporters on this forum had second thoughts?

Marshall Hahn
I am at most a tepid Clinton supporter; in my mind, her primary recommendation is that she is not Trump.  But the latest news has me thinking about Gary Johnson.

Peace,
Jon

mariemeyer

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Re: Any Clinton supporters inclined to reconsider?
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2016, 03:30:21 PM »
Listening to Hillary Clinton defend her position of abortion was painful.   I found her comments  morally reprehensible for someone who claims the well being of children and families are her priority.  If only she had said one word about what can be done to limit the number of abortions. With modern medical advances the abortion of a child is rarely if ever necessary to save the life of a mother.  IMO she was not well informed about late term abortions.

Yet, Roe v Wade is here to stay.  Thus, we are left with deciding which of the candidates will better lead the country on a national and international level.  The thought of Trump having the singular power to inaugurate a first nuclear strike frightens me.  I observe him to be mentally unstable. 

If there was a candidate other than Trump running opposite Clinton, I would reconsider voting for her.  The First Things article mentioned on the Trump threat is sobering.  I will reluctantly vote for Clinton.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Any Clinton supporters inclined to reconsider?
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2016, 03:50:59 PM »
Listening to Hillary Clinton defend her position of abortion was painful.   I found her comments  morally reprehensible for someone who claims the well being of children and families are her priority.  If only she had said one word about what can be done to limit the number of abortions. With modern medical advances the abortion of a child is rarely if ever necessary to save the life of a mother.  IMO she was not well informed about late term abortions.

Yet, Roe v Wade is here to stay.  Thus, we are left with deciding which of the candidates will better lead the country on a national and international level.  The thought of Trump having the singular power to inaugurate a first nuclear strike frightens me.  I observe him to be mentally unstable. 

If there was a candidate other than Trump running opposite Clinton, I would reconsider voting for her.  The First Things article mentioned on the Trump threat is sobering.  I will reluctantly vote for Clinton.
I don't begrudge anyone their reluctant choice in this election, but I do suspect that "Roe v Wade is here to stay" is erroneous. It reminds me of the Bruce Hornsby song and the verse about segregation with the refrain, "That's just the way it is. Some things will never change." It goes on to say, "Hey old man, how can you stand to think that way? Did you really think about it before you made the rules?"

I think the rising generation, especially with their access to 3D, real time live imaging of babies in the womb, will be asking the Supreme Court the same questions. Did you really think that through before you just declared from out of nowhere that it was the law?

And that question, which I believe will be a central one to my grandchildren's generation, will carry an implicit accusatory question to every who assumes Roe v Wade is here to stay; that's just the way it is, and some things will never change. And that acusatory question will be "How can you stand to think that way?"   

LCMS87

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Re: Any Clinton supporters inclined to reconsider?
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2016, 04:15:17 PM »
And even if Roe v. Wade remains the law of the land for the time being, Mrs. Clinton's aim is to get rid of the restrictions on Federal funding of abortion, get rid of health and safety requirements, and remove restrictions on late term abortions.  If she has her way, there will be more abortions next year than there were this year.  Hard as it is to believe, her position on abortion is to the left even of President Obama, the most pro-abortion president we've ever had!

gan ainm

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Re: Any Clinton supporters inclined to reconsider?
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2016, 04:25:19 PM »
Edit:  I may have posted in the wrong thread.  There is ZERO chance I could ever vote for Hillary.  Never would, NEVER.  She is the epitome of corruption and far too socialist, Marxist, leftist, untruthfullist for my taste and for what I believe our country (once?) stands for.

I'm still thinking about the culture of death versus the culture of life. 

Clinton - 100% she will endorse the culture of death.  And 100% she will make many disasterous decisions for the well being of our country.

Trump - 50% to 75% he will turn a blind eye to the culture of death.  And 50% chance he will make poor decisions if they conflict with his ego.

Bottom line - BOTH are morally reprehensible but one of them has a slightly better chance of preventing our continued slide to the bottom.

I still am not sure I can vote for either.  We shall see .......
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 04:34:14 PM by gan ainm »

Richard Johnson

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Re: Any Clinton supporters inclined to reconsider?
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2016, 06:54:43 PM »
I am more convinced than ever that a vote for Secretary Clinton is the best vote in a bad field.

I absolutely agree, both with Marie's abhorrence of Clinton's words and abortion, and with Peter's argument that Roe v. Wade isn't necessarily "here to stay" (please, God). But I am not convinced that Clinton is going to make things worse in this regard; indeed, reaction against her may ultimately make things better. The three oldest Supreme Court justices, so the ones most likely to retire or die during a Clinton presidency, are all abortion rights supporters, so other than the potential shift of the currently vacant seat, I do not think she'll do irreparable damage to the Court in this respect. I strongly suspect she will be a one-term president, provided the Republicans can get their act together (which certainly isn't a sure bet).

So I will vote for Clinton, with reluctance, but with conviction that all the other choices are worse in one way or another.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

Robert Johnson

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Re: Any Clinton supporters inclined to reconsider?
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2016, 07:04:40 PM »
... other than the potential shift of the currently vacant seat, I do not think she'll do irreparable damage to the Court in this respect.

"Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?"

Kobalos

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Re: Any Clinton supporters inclined to reconsider?
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2016, 08:04:41 PM »

 I strongly suspect she will be a one-term president, provided the Republicans can get their act together (which certainly isn't a sure bet).

So I will vote for Clinton, with reluctance, but with conviction that all the other choices are worse in one way or another.

Johnson has turned out to be a huge disappointment as a Libertarian so that shut off my voting from ideals.

OTOH, I humbly submit you have misread the Republican voter. They came out in record numbers and their front runner garnered more votes than any other previous candidate. They are willing to blow up the system if that's what it will take to derail a corrupt, gamed and growing hegemony. They see no substantial difference between the two parties and have concluded they've nothing to lose. For that reason I'll be voting for Trump. A little revolution once in awhile can be a good thing.

D. Engebretson

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Re: Any Clinton supporters inclined to reconsider?
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2016, 08:40:07 PM »
With the barrage of e-mails showing additional lies and subterfuge, FBI reports suggesting a "quid pro quo" offer from Clinton operatives, video of Clinton campaign workers boasting about breaking up Trump rallies and plans to commit voter fraud, have any Clinton supporters on this forum had second thoughts?

Marshall Hahn

Based on most of the media coverage I see, including today's paper, it is the perceived foibles of Trump that garner the most attention. I am beginning to believe that Democrats, in general, either do not see the recent revelations as significant, or they simply do not believe them. Clinton's defense, so far, appears to be that they are not relevant because they represent stolen information, stolen, it is claimed, by the Russians. Conservative Republicans become excited about each new Wikileak revelation, but Democrats and the media give little attention to them.  Or so it seems to me....
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Samuel_Zumwalt

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Re: Any Clinton supporters inclined to reconsider?
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2016, 09:13:03 PM »
Has anyone else given much thought to the notion that once the majority media no longer has Trump to kick around they will be forced by the 24/7/365 cycle to address the Clintonian sins presently unexamined? Might she end up being the second Clinton to be impeached and the first to be removed from office? Or, at least, mortally-damaged and constantly attacked throughout her presidency?

Team Hesse

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Re: Any Clinton supporters inclined to reconsider?
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2016, 09:47:41 PM »
With the barrage of e-mails showing additional lies and subterfuge, FBI reports suggesting a "quid pro quo" offer from Clinton operatives, video of Clinton campaign workers boasting about breaking up Trump rallies and plans to commit voter fraud, have any Clinton supporters on this forum had second thoughts?

Marshall Hahn


Most of my friends hold political views considerably to the left of mine.  Many have congratulated me on my opposition to Trump's candidacy.  The congratulations usually come along with a rant about Trump's treatment of women, his sleazy business practices, etc.  The rants generally do not include anything about policy.  I typically respond to such a rant by noting that the condemnations of Trump apply with equal force to Clinton and that I therefore assume that the person is not voting for Hillary.  The usual response is silence.  There is no good defense for Hillary Clinton's conduct, after all.  For reasons beyond my understanding, my left-leaning friends almost all are voting for Hillary.  The vast majority of my conservative friends are voting for someone other than Trump.


Can someone explain this phenomenon?


Your conservative friends have values......


Lou

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Any Clinton supporters inclined to reconsider?
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2016, 11:34:19 PM »
Might she end up being the second Clinton to be impeached and the first to be removed from office?

I would bet neither the farm nor the Republic on that conjecture.
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