Saturday morning: Final plenary, final worship (A-)

Started by Richard Johnson, August 13, 2016, 01:25:55 PM

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John_Hannah

I an most grateful to our trusty reporter, Richard Johnson, for his timely and insightful reports here. Can't wait to read his printed report in a couple of months. It is bound to be filled with thoughtful reflections and ELCA direction. (Do subscribe if you don't already.)

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

Dave Benke

Quote from: Brian Stoffregen on August 14, 2016, 11:08:39 AM
Quote from: PlainOldPastor on August 14, 2016, 09:26:22 AM
Quote from: Charles Austin on August 14, 2016, 09:05:47 AM
Someone writes (when I said: The bishops I spoke with said the tumult of organizing the ELCA and the fallout from 2009 was over):
Huh. As a pastor and the wife of a pastor, I can tell you that is 100% Not True, in multiple congregations, across multiple synods.
Those bishops may want to get out a bit more.

I comment:
Well, POP, you can call the bishops and lay people liars if you wish, but that is what they said to me. And I know several of these bishops and can assure you that they "get out" quite a bit. Do you want the fussing and fuming and viciousness and congregations voting to leave to go on? I don't. Godspeed to those who have left and may their ministries be blessed. We in the ELCA can no longer be tied up in angry knots about the decisions of 2009. And I do not believe that we are.
No doubt there are pockets of - whatever - but ...

So....when the bishops say There Are No Problems, they're speaking God's honest truth..but when local pastors say No, There Actually Are Problems, they're lying? Why are you comfortable calling me a liar? I'm not saying bishops are liars. I'm saying maybe they're unaware of the situations in some congregations.


Where did they say "there are no problems"? Bishops are always dealing with some problems. For the most part the fallout from the 2009 vote is over. That topic is not an issue that keeps coming up at Synod Assemblies I've attended like it did prior to 2009. Only occasionally do I now read of a congregation voting to leave the ELCA - nothing like it was in the first couple years after 2009.


The "problem" that is being discussed on Facebook is CORE's presence at the Churchwide Assembly - and whether or not they are promoting reparative therapy.

"Reparative Therapy."  Was ist das?

Dave Benke
It's OK to Pray

DCharlton

Quote from: mj4 on August 14, 2016, 11:59:07 AM
Quote from: peter_speckhard on August 13, 2016, 04:27:20 PM
The summary says, "The ELCA is growing, thriving and more connected across the US and Caribbean."

In what sense is that true?

What may not have been clear is that the summary (from the direction paper Called Forward Together in Christ for the Sake of the World) provided by Pr. Johnson was a summary of emerging priorities in the ELCA. The various points were aspirational, not descriptive. They served as the basis for the small group discussions that Pr. Austin reportedly skipped.

Thank you for the clarification.  That was what it sounded like to me. 
David Charlton  

Was Algul Siento a divinity school?

DCharlton

Quote from: Charles Austin on August 14, 2016, 09:05:47 AM
Someone writes (when I said: The bishops I spoke with said the tumult of organizing the ELCA and the fallout from 2009 was over):
Huh. As a pastor and the wife of a pastor, I can tell you that is 100% Not True, in multiple congregations, across multiple synods.
Those bishops may want to get out a bit more.

I comment:
Well, POP, you can call the bishops and lay people liars if you wish, but that is what they said to me. And I know several of these bishops and can assure you that they "get out" quite a bit. Do you want the fussing and fuming and viciousness and congregations voting to leave to go on? I don't. Godspeed to those who have left and may their ministries be blessed. We in the ELCA can no longer be tied up in angry knots about the decisions of 2009. And I do not believe that we are.
No doubt there are pockets of - whatever - but ...

Things have gotten much better in my neck of the woods.  There seems to be a greater level of trust between the synod office and those churches and pastors who can be described as traditional.  Heated rhetoric is heard from time to time, mostly coming from those who think the church hasn't changed enough, but overall it is less pronounced. 
David Charlton  

Was Algul Siento a divinity school?

DCharlton

Quote from: Brian Stoffregen on August 14, 2016, 11:08:39 AM
The "problem" that is being discussed on Facebook is CORE's presence at the Churchwide Assembly - and whether or not they are promoting reparative therapy.

Why would anyone have a problem with CORE being there? 
David Charlton  

Was Algul Siento a divinity school?

Charles Austin

CORE was virtually invisible at the Assembly. I ran into one CORE member. I saw no signs, no announcements of any room where they were hanging out.
I was all over the assembly venue every day. If they had intended to have a "presence," they failed at it.
I think some chatter on Facebook (I don't do much over there) had to do with whether CORE had some connection with the groups that try to "cure" homosexuality.
Iowa-born. Long-time in NY/New Jersey, former LWF staff in Geneva.
ELCA PASTOR, ordained 1967. Former journalist. Retired in Minneapolis.
GUILTY on ALL 34 counts

Richard Johnson

Quote from: Charles Austin on August 14, 2016, 02:34:47 PM
CORE was virtually invisible at the Assembly. I ran into one CORE member. I saw no signs, no announcements of any room where they were hanging out.
I was all over the assembly venue every day. If they had intended to have a "presence," they failed at it.
I think some chatter on Facebook (I don't do much over there) had to do with whether CORE had some connection with the groups that try to "cure" homosexuality.

You must not have been paying attention. Secretary Boerger announced twice the CORE reception on Thursday evening at the Sheraton (and there were signs pointing to it). It was not hugely attended, but there were some folks, perhaps a couple dozen, there. The presence was certainly "low key," in part because they weren't allowed (or couldn't afford) a table in the display area.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

Charles Austin

Then I'm glad CORE was there and that they got the privilege of an announcement from the podium. I only met a COREian that I had known from the old days outside the plenary hall. He didn't invite me to anything. But then...
Iowa-born. Long-time in NY/New Jersey, former LWF staff in Geneva.
ELCA PASTOR, ordained 1967. Former journalist. Retired in Minneapolis.
GUILTY on ALL 34 counts

Dave Likeness

The Austin and Johnson duo in the ELCA Assembly press box sounds like the comedy team of
Abbott and Costello of yesteryear.

Charles Austin

 I preferred to think we were more like the Everly Brothers.
Iowa-born. Long-time in NY/New Jersey, former LWF staff in Geneva.
ELCA PASTOR, ordained 1967. Former journalist. Retired in Minneapolis.
GUILTY on ALL 34 counts

DCharlton

David Charlton  

Was Algul Siento a divinity school?

Brian Stoffregen

Quote from: Charles Austin on August 14, 2016, 02:34:47 PM
CORE was virtually invisible at the Assembly. I ran into one CORE member. I saw no signs, no announcements of any room where they were hanging out.
I was all over the assembly venue every day. If they had intended to have a "presence," they failed at it.
I think some chatter on Facebook (I don't do much over there) had to do with whether CORE had some connection with the groups that try to "cure" homosexuality.


There was an announcement about a CORE reception at a hotel. Some objected because they are not a recognized ELCA group. The other problem is that there is a question of CORE supports groups that try to "cure" homosexuality, such as Exodus International, which believes that they can repair same-sex orientation. (Exodus International went out of business in 2013.) There are also some folks who see CORE as a homophobic hate group and/or an anti-ELCA organization that has no place in an ELCA Churchwide Assembly.
I flunked retirement. Serving as a part-time interim in Ferndale, WA.

Eileen Smith

Quote from: Brian Stoffregen on August 15, 2016, 01:40:07 AM
Quote from: Charles Austin on August 14, 2016, 02:34:47 PM
CORE was virtually invisible at the Assembly. I ran into one CORE member. I saw no signs, no announcements of any room where they were hanging out.
I was all over the assembly venue every day. If they had intended to have a "presence," they failed at it.
I think some chatter on Facebook (I don't do much over there) had to do with whether CORE had some connection with the groups that try to "cure" homosexuality.


There was an announcement about a CORE reception at a hotel. Some objected because they are not a recognized ELCA group. The other problem is that there is a question of CORE supports groups that try to "cure" homosexuality, such as Exodus International, which believes that they can repair same-sex orientation. (Exodus International went out of business in 2013.) There are also some folks who see CORE as a homophobic hate group and/or an anti-ELCA organization that has no place in an ELCA Churchwide Assembly.

And that is the problem - one either gets on-board with the ELCA  view on sexuality or one has no voice and is seen as homophobic.  In the ELCA - in society in general - those asking for tolerance have no tolerance for opinions other than their own. 

Charles Austin

I honestly do not think one has to "get on board," Eileen. But we must admit that there are those for whom this single issue is just that - a single issue - and tends to be the only thing about the ELCA that involves them. And for some of those people, it is true that their attitudes towards that issue will impact their ability to get a call. Would a congregation that is welcoming and supportive of same-sex couples and their marriage be forced to call a pastor with an exact contrary opinion?
Or, if a pastor who does not endorse same-sex marriage is in a congregation that supports his or her view, can that pastor and the congregation still take full part in the life of the ELCA, sending mission support, getting their kids to the synod camp and youth gatherings, cooperating with nearby congregations (which may have a partnered gay or lesbian pastor)? If so, fine. If they must become isolationist and withdraw from synod and ELCA activities, is that a good thing? I don't think so.
Iowa-born. Long-time in NY/New Jersey, former LWF staff in Geneva.
ELCA PASTOR, ordained 1967. Former journalist. Retired in Minneapolis.
GUILTY on ALL 34 counts

John_Hannah

Quote from: Brian Stoffregen on August 15, 2016, 01:40:07 AM

The other problem is that there is a question of CORE supports groups that try to "cure" homosexuality, such as Exodus International, which believes that they can repair same-sex orientation. (Exodus International went out of business in 2013.) There are also some folks who see CORE as a homophobic hate group and/or an anti-ELCA organization that has no place in an ELCA Churchwide Assembly.


I see a lot of that these days of presidential campaigning. Exaggerate your opponent position to the ridiculous. You don't have to go to a church convention/assembly also; just watch the evening news most any day.

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

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