Author Topic: R.I.P Justice Scalia  (Read 12766 times)

readselerttoo

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R.I.P Justice Scalia
« on: February 13, 2016, 08:47:20 PM »
A quote the NYT:   “Hubris is sometimes defined as o’erweening pride; and pride, we know, goeth before a fall,” he wrote. “. . . With each decision of ours that takes from the People a question properly left to them — with each decision that is unabashedly based not on law, but on the ‘reasoned judgment’ of a bare majority of this Court — we move one step closer to being reminded of our impotence."


Scalia had made this comment after the SCOTUS decision on gay marriage. 

His opinions will be sadly missed.

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: R.I.P Justice Scalia
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2016, 11:25:39 PM »
May his Memory be Eternal.
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Matt Hummel

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Re: R.I.P Justice Scalia
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2016, 06:15:53 AM »
For the repose of his soul and the safety of our republic.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 06:16:01 PM by Prolife Professional »
Matt Hummel


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Donald_Kirchner

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Re: R.I.P Justice Scalia
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2016, 04:13:56 PM »
The LCMS comment:

"A STATEMENT FROM PRESIDENT HARRISON ON THE DEATH OF JUSTICE SCALIA

“Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and how inscrutable His ways!” (Rom. 11:33).

We have received the news of the death of Justice Scalia with deep shock. On the moral issues, on which The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod has taken a public stand (life, marriage and religious freedom), we and all creedal and biblically oriented Christians had no more stalwart friend on the Supreme Court than Justice Scalia. He articulated the voice of consistent rationality and unchanging natural law—the very voice and sentiment of the founders of this nation—in the face of progressivism on the court, which has left our nation morally depleted. Unfortunately the death of a great man is often a harbinger of worse things to come. Can the Supreme Court harm this nation even more than it has? Are 57 million abortions not enough? Unfortunately, we may well fall to even deeper depths of degradation.

Spare us, O God, from what we deserve, and give this nation leaders and justices who recognize the unchanging and rational truth of natural law, which accords with the Ten Commandments. And grant us justices and leaders who recognize, as did our founders, the great benefit of a religious citizenry for the well-being of all. Amen."

https://www.facebook.com/TheLCMS/photos/a.146764088579.113654.6058843579/10153590010698580/?type=3&theater

Don Kirchner

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LutherMan

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Re: R.I.P Justice Scalia
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2016, 04:25:09 PM »
Great statement, thanks Pr. K...

Michael Slusser

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Re: R.I.P Justice Scalia
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2016, 05:07:42 PM »
I can understand why Synod President Harrison would shy away from commending Justice Scalia's soul to God. I'm less clear as to why he would not speak of his spiritual destiny, his character as a baptized child of God and member of Christ's body, even less why he offers no sympathy or even recognition to his widow Maureen and his children.

The message seemed more oriented to how Justice Scalia's death may affect political maneuvering, and especially "us" vs. that horrible legal progressivism to which the late Justice was opposed. I find the message disappointing, though not as callous as the CBS interviewers last night at the debate, who hastened with all possible speed to use this sudden death to fan the fire at the debate.

I don't know if the Catholic bishops will say anything official about Justice Scalia's death, but if they do, I'll try to pass it along.

Peace,
Michael
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 05:24:18 PM by Michael Slusser »
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Donald_Kirchner

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Re: R.I.P Justice Scalia
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2016, 05:20:36 PM »
That's why I posted it, Fr. Slusser. I found Harrison's comment, shall we say, interesting.
Don Kirchner

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Re: R.I.P Justice Scalia
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2016, 06:42:44 PM »
For a prominent type of "confessional Lutherans," including supporters of the Synod President, we all must remember, the late justice was in thrall to the Anti-Christ.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, Nw York and New Jersey. LCA and LWF staff. Former journalist. Now retired, living in Minneapolis. Preaching and presiding for Episcopalians next Sunday.

peter_speckhard

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Re: R.I.P Justice Scalia
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2016, 08:53:26 PM »
While it might have been nice for the press release to offer condolences to the survivors I don't think that was the point. It was directed to LCMS members, not the Scalia family. It focuses, therefore, on how Scalia was a stalwart friend of the LCMS on the issues related to his role on the court and who was a great man whose loss wil be keenly felt. I read plenty of articles and press releases about the death of Richard Neuhaus that didn't focus on condolences but rather on the effect his death would have on the pro-life movement. I didn't take offense, and I'd be stunned if anyone in the Scalia family takes offense at Harrison's words. And if it doesn't bother them, why should it bother anyone on this board?

Michael Slusser

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Re: R.I.P Justice Scalia
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2016, 10:14:03 PM »
While it might have been nice for the press release to offer condolences to the survivors I don't think that was the point. It was directed to LCMS members, not the Scalia family. It focuses, therefore, on how Scalia was a stalwart friend of the LCMS on the issues related to his role on the court and who was a great man whose loss wil be keenly felt. I read plenty of articles and press releases about the death of Richard Neuhaus that didn't focus on condolences but rather on the effect his death would have on the pro-life movement. I didn't take offense, and I'd be stunned if anyone in the Scalia family takes offense at Harrison's words. And if it doesn't bother them, why should it bother anyone on this board?
It's the first reaction, Pr. Speckhard. It's not necessary to wait until a person is buried to talk about how his death will affect your political interests, but I thought this haste was tacky. Had his body even been returned to Washington? What was so time sensitive that SP Harrison had to rush his reaction out? Do LCMS members have a short attention span? I haven't noticed that.

I doubt if anyone in the Scalia family will know what Harrison wrote, or care. Everyone will acknowledge that he has been a great jurist. Even his opponents will, I expect, concede the fact. But his death is first a human and a Christian fact, and should be treated as such by spiritual leaders.

YMOV

Peace,
Michael
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Dave Benke

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Re: R.I.P Justice Scalia
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2016, 11:16:51 PM »
While it might have been nice for the press release to offer condolences to the survivors I don't think that was the point. It was directed to LCMS members, not the Scalia family. It focuses, therefore, on how Scalia was a stalwart friend of the LCMS on the issues related to his role on the court and who was a great man whose loss wil be keenly felt. I read plenty of articles and press releases about the death of Richard Neuhaus that didn't focus on condolences but rather on the effect his death would have on the pro-life movement. I didn't take offense, and I'd be stunned if anyone in the Scalia family takes offense at Harrison's words. And if it doesn't bother them, why should it bother anyone on this board?
It's the first reaction, Pr. Speckhard. It's not necessary to wait until a person is buried to talk about how his death will affect your political interests, but I thought this haste was tacky. Had his body even been returned to Washington? What was so time sensitive that SP Harrison had to rush his reaction out? Do LCMS members have a short attention span? I haven't noticed that.

I doubt if anyone in the Scalia family will know what Harrison wrote, or care. Everyone will acknowledge that he has been a great jurist. Even his opponents will, I expect, concede the fact. But his death is first a human and a Christian fact, and should be treated as such by spiritual leaders.

YMOV

Peace,
Michael

I'm in agreement with Fr. Slusser here, precisely because this is an open conversation board with a diverse group of interactors and readers.  "Why should it bother anyone on this board" is a question by a board moderator that makes me wonder if the moderator understands the value of the ecumenical composition of this board.

As to the substance, being an LCMS pastor, my first instinct is always to extend condolences to the family and loved ones along with the hope of the Resurrection. 

Dave Benke

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Re: R.I.P Justice Scalia
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2016, 11:30:08 PM »
While it might have been nice for the press release to offer condolences to the survivors I don't think that was the point. It was directed to LCMS members, not the Scalia family. It focuses, therefore, on how Scalia was a stalwart friend of the LCMS on the issues related to his role on the court and who was a great man whose loss wil be keenly felt. I read plenty of articles and press releases about the death of Richard Neuhaus that didn't focus on condolences but rather on the effect his death would have on the pro-life movement. I didn't take offense, and I'd be stunned if anyone in the Scalia family takes offense at Harrison's words. And if it doesn't bother them, why should it bother anyone on this board?
It's the first reaction, Pr. Speckhard. It's not necessary to wait until a person is buried to talk about how his death will affect your political interests, but I thought this haste was tacky. Had his body even been returned to Washington? What was so time sensitive that SP Harrison had to rush his reaction out? Do LCMS members have a short attention span? I haven't noticed that.

I doubt if anyone in the Scalia family will know what Harrison wrote, or care. Everyone will acknowledge that he has been a great jurist. Even his opponents will, I expect, concede the fact. But his death is first a human and a Christian fact, and should be treated as such by spiritual leaders.

YMOV

Peace,
Michael


When debating legal questions, Justice Scalia's tongue and pen could be sharp.  But in the midst of debate, you'd note the sparkle in his eye.  He loved the exercise of debating against smart people, both because it was important and because for him it was fun.


Here's a link to the statements released by Justice Scalia's colleagues on the Court.  Most of them go far beyond the necessary niceness demanded by protocol and good manners.  Here are a couple excerpts.


Justice Ginsburg:

"From our years together at the D.C. Circuit, we were best buddies. We disagreed now and then, but when I wrote for the Court and received a Scalia dissent, the opinion ultimately released was notably better than my initial circulation. Justice Scalia nailed all the weak spots—the 'applesauce' and 'argue bargle'—and gave me just what I needed to strengthen the majority opinion. He was a jurist of captivating brilliance and wit, with a rare talent to make even the most sober judge laugh."

Justice Sotomayor:

"I will miss him and the dimming of his special light is a great loss for me."

If only all our leaders could wrestle together both with seriousness of purpose and with the magnanimity toward one another.

Rest eternal grant to Antonin Scalia, and let light perpetual shine upon him.  Thanks for his decades of public service and for all the ways in which he enriched the life of his family, friends, and colleagues. 

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: R.I.P Justice Scalia
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2016, 11:42:48 PM »
While it might have been nice for the press release to offer condolences to the survivors I don't think that was the point. It was directed to LCMS members, not the Scalia family. It focuses, therefore, on how Scalia was a stalwart friend of the LCMS on the issues related to his role on the court and who was a great man whose loss wil be keenly felt. I read plenty of articles and press releases about the death of Richard Neuhaus that didn't focus on condolences but rather on the effect his death would have on the pro-life movement. I didn't take offense, and I'd be stunned if anyone in the Scalia family takes offense at Harrison's words. And if it doesn't bother them, why should it bother anyone on this board?
It's the first reaction, Pr. Speckhard. It's not necessary to wait until a person is buried to talk about how his death will affect your political interests, but I thought this haste was tacky. Had his body even been returned to Washington? What was so time sensitive that SP Harrison had to rush his reaction out? Do LCMS members have a short attention span? I haven't noticed that.

I doubt if anyone in the Scalia family will know what Harrison wrote, or care. Everyone will acknowledge that he has been a great jurist. Even his opponents will, I expect, concede the fact. But his death is first a human and a Christian fact, and should be treated as such by spiritual leaders.

YMOV

Peace,
Michael

I'm in agreement with Fr. Slusser here, precisely because this is an open conversation board with a diverse group of interactors and readers.  "Why should it bother anyone on this board" is a question by a board moderator that makes me wonder if the moderator understands the value of the ecumenical composition of this board.

As to the substance, being an LCMS pastor, my first instinct is always to extend condolences to the family and loved ones along with the hope of the Resurrection. 

Dave Benke

The chief Pastor of a Synod or Diocese should, above all, be pastoral in public statements at times of national bereavement.

The former episcopal leader of one of my former affiliations has been frequently, and deservedly, criticized through the years for becoming primarily political and ultimately little more than a partisan cheerleader for the left.

President Harrison should be careful, lest St. Louis appear as merely the conservative version of Chicago.

St. Louis has so much more to offer.  Don't trade its riches for the pottage of partisanship.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 11:44:49 PM by J. Thomas Shelley »
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James_Gale

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Re: R.I.P Justice Scalia
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2016, 11:44:21 PM »
While it might have been nice for the press release to offer condolences to the survivors I don't think that was the point. It was directed to LCMS members, not the Scalia family. It focuses, therefore, on how Scalia was a stalwart friend of the LCMS on the issues related to his role on the court and who was a great man whose loss wil be keenly felt. I read plenty of articles and press releases about the death of Richard Neuhaus that didn't focus on condolences but rather on the effect his death would have on the pro-life movement. I didn't take offense, and I'd be stunned if anyone in the Scalia family takes offense at Harrison's words. And if it doesn't bother them, why should it bother anyone on this board?
It's the first reaction, Pr. Speckhard. It's not necessary to wait until a person is buried to talk about how his death will affect your political interests, but I thought this haste was tacky. Had his body even been returned to Washington? What was so time sensitive that SP Harrison had to rush his reaction out? Do LCMS members have a short attention span? I haven't noticed that.

I doubt if anyone in the Scalia family will know what Harrison wrote, or care. Everyone will acknowledge that he has been a great jurist. Even his opponents will, I expect, concede the fact. But his death is first a human and a Christian fact, and should be treated as such by spiritual leaders.

YMOV

Peace,
Michael

I'm in agreement with Fr. Slusser here, precisely because this is an open conversation board with a diverse group of interactors and readers.  "Why should it bother anyone on this board" is a question by a board moderator that makes me wonder if the moderator understands the value of the ecumenical composition of this board.

As to the substance, being an LCMS pastor, my first instinct is always to extend condolences to the family and loved ones along with the hope of the Resurrection. 

Dave Benke


Not only that, I am quite certain that Justice Scalia would quibble with the statement's characterizations of his work.  He did not think it right for a judge to decide cases on the basis of the judge's personal convictions.  He would not have been comfortable with the notion that he was a friend to any particular views on moral issues.  Law of course embodies moral judgments.  But those judgments, he believed, were largely reserved to the political branches of the state and federal governments and to the people individually.  The courts' job is simply to enforce the laws in a manner consistent with the text's original public meaning. 


Legal scholars and others will debate for decades over the propriety of his approach to jurisprudence and over whether he applied that approach consistently in all his own work.  He always enjoyed that debate.  But I think that if presented the LCMS press release, he would likely have jotted off a good-natured corrective.

peter_speckhard

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Re: R.I.P Justice Scalia
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2016, 11:50:14 PM »
While it might have been nice for the press release to offer condolences to the survivors I don't think that was the point. It was directed to LCMS members, not the Scalia family. It focuses, therefore, on how Scalia was a stalwart friend of the LCMS on the issues related to his role on the court and who was a great man whose loss wil be keenly felt. I read plenty of articles and press releases about the death of Richard Neuhaus that didn't focus on condolences but rather on the effect his death would have on the pro-life movement. I didn't take offense, and I'd be stunned if anyone in the Scalia family takes offense at Harrison's words. And if it doesn't bother them, why should it bother anyone on this board?
It's the first reaction, Pr. Speckhard. It's not necessary to wait until a person is buried to talk about how his death will affect your political interests, but I thought this haste was tacky. Had his body even been returned to Washington? What was so time sensitive that SP Harrison had to rush his reaction out? Do LCMS members have a short attention span? I haven't noticed that.

I doubt if anyone in the Scalia family will know what Harrison wrote, or care. Everyone will acknowledge that he has been a great jurist. Even his opponents will, I expect, concede the fact. But his death is first a human and a Christian fact, and should be treated as such by spiritual leaders.

YMOV

Peace,
Michael
If the concern is propriety I guess I was reacting to the instant impulse to nitpick somebody else's expression of honor to the deceased. In the immediate aftermath of news, President Harrison called the deceased a great friend of the LCMS in his role on the SCOTUS and a stalwart champion of issues dear to all Christians. As I said, it might have been nice had the statement offered condolences to the survivors. But is it really worth complaining about? Every pastor knows how deflating it is when somebody majoring in the minors offers up some petty criticism of something happening at church. I imagine it is the same with synodical presidents. Here is a guy engaged in the public square and being ecumenical about it; the alpb is the last place I'd expect to see him getting criticized for it.