Author Topic: LCMS dissolves Memorandum of Understanding with Boy Scouts of America  (Read 2763 times)

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: LCMS dissolves Memorandum of Understanding with Boy Scouts of America
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2015, 05:54:49 PM »
No, BS, you didn't ask that question. You asked, "So, why isn't the LDS with its similar view of homosexual behaviors backing away like the LCMS?" A member of yours "highly involved with Scouting" already had given you the answer. If you need further info, I suggested you ask a Mormon. There are plenty in your area.

You know, you may think that your constant reference to Brian as "BS" is cute and clever. While I may agree with your implied characterization of a good bit of what Brian writes, I don't think your reference is cute and clever. I think it is rude and disrespectful, and as far as humor goes, it floats around the level of a fifth-grader.


I'm sure he means Brilliant Scholar.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Harvey_Mozolak

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Re: LCMS dissolves Memorandum of Understanding with Boy Scouts of America
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2015, 09:01:01 PM »
Glad you wrote this Richard, I hate to poke things too much and so glad Brian (whom I often also disagree with but do not find disagreeable) was politely silent...  enough is enough even tho one cannot prove any "initial" and ongoing disparagement, it sure smells like it due to its repetitive nature. 



You know, you may think that your constant reference to Brian as "BS" is cute and clever. While I may agree with your implied characterization of a good bit of what Brian writes, I don't think your reference is cute and clever. I think it is rude and disrespectful, and as far as humor goes, it floats around the level of a fifth-grader.
Harvey S. Mozolak
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MaddogLutheran

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Re: LCMS dissolves Memorandum of Understanding with Boy Scouts of America
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2015, 10:22:59 PM »
Glad you wrote this Richard, I hate to poke things too much and so glad Brian (whom I often also disagree with but do not find disagreeable) was politely silent...  enough is enough even tho one cannot prove any "initial" and ongoing disparagement, it sure smells like it due to its repetitive nature. 



You know, you may think that your constant reference to Brian as "BS" is cute and clever. While I may agree with your implied characterization of a good bit of what Brian writes, I don't think your reference is cute and clever. I think it is rude and disrespectful, and as far as humor goes, it floats around the level of a fifth-grader.

I recognize that the moderators have a particular responsibility, and we all have a duty to be civil to each other...but I question whether this inference is putting the best possible construct on Pr. Kirchner's usage.  The Eight Commandment can be tricky indeed.

Personally I wouldn't do what he's doing, because it might be misinterpreted (unless I intended it that way), but I also wouldn't call him on it because it's an unfair inference.  Especially since others here have there idiosyncratic way of interacting.

YMMV

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Dave Likeness

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Re: LCMS dissolves Memorandum of Understanding with Boy Scouts of America
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2015, 10:38:43 PM »
Pastor Brian of Yuma, Arizona is a brother in Christ and deserves
to be treated as one.  One time in 1993, I got off the Interstate
and fueled our car in Yuma and ate at a nearby cafeteria.  Our
family was amazed at their July heat.   We drank plenty of water
and went on our way to San Diego.

LutherMan

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Re: LCMS dissolves Memorandum of Understanding with Boy Scouts of America
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2015, 10:44:57 PM »
Glad you wrote this Richard, I hate to poke things too much and so glad Brian (whom I often also disagree with but do not find disagreeable) was politely silent...  enough is enough even tho one cannot prove any "initial" and ongoing disparagement, it sure smells like it due to its repetitive nature. 



You know, you may think that your constant reference to Brian as "BS" is cute and clever. While I may agree with your implied characterization of a good bit of what Brian writes, I don't think your reference is cute and clever. I think it is rude and disrespectful, and as far as humor goes, it floats around the level of a fifth-grader.

I recognize that the moderators have a particular responsibility, and we all have a duty to be civil to each other...but I question whether this inference is putting the best possible construct on Pr. Kirchner's usage.  The Eight Commandment can be tricky indeed.

Personally I wouldn't do what he's doing, because it might be misinterpreted (unless I intended it that way), but I also wouldn't call him on it because it's an unfair inference.  Especially since others here have there idiosyncratic way of interacting.

YMMV
Wise words, indeed...

Dan Fienen

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Re: LCMS dissolves Memorandum of Understanding with Boy Scouts of America
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2015, 10:48:58 PM »
Does Pr. Kirchner refer to anyone else by their initials as he does with Pr. Stoffregen?
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

Richard Johnson

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Re: LCMS dissolves Memorandum of Understanding with Boy Scouts of America
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2015, 10:56:37 PM »


Personally I wouldn't do what he's doing, because it might be misinterpreted (unless I intended it that way), but I also wouldn't call him on it because it's an unfair inference.  Especially since others here have there idiosyncratic way of interacting.

I posted this a few minutes ago, but it seems to have disappeared into cyberspace. I note that (a) Pr. Kirchner consistently refers to Brian by his initials, (b) Pr. Kirchner doesn't refer to anyone else by initials, and (c) what he says to Brian makes it pretty clear that he and Brian don't share some intimate friendship outside this forum that leads to his using his initials in an affectionate way.

In light of all that, I find preposterous his implication that I have misunderstood his intent. I do not apologize for my inference. Nor do I think it is incorrect.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

Robert Johnson

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Re: LCMS dissolves Memorandum of Understanding with Boy Scouts of America
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2015, 11:35:50 PM »
You know what happens when you assume, Rev. Johnson.

The assumption is perfectly rational.  In the vernacular, you're being a dick.

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: LCMS dissolves Memorandum of Understanding with Boy Scouts of America
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2015, 01:52:47 AM »


Personally I wouldn't do what he's doing, because it might be misinterpreted (unless I intended it that way), but I also wouldn't call him on it because it's an unfair inference.  Especially since others here have there idiosyncratic way of interacting.

I posted this a few minutes ago, but it seems to have disappeared into cyberspace. I note that (a) Pr. Kirchner consistently refers to Brian by his initials, (b) Pr. Kirchner doesn't refer to anyone else by initials, and (c) what he says to Brian makes it pretty clear that he and Brian don't share some intimate friendship outside this forum that leads to his using his initials in an affectionate way.

In light of all that, I find preposterous his implication that I have misunderstood his intent. I do not apologize for my inference. Nor do I think it is incorrect.

You misunderstand, Rev Johnson. You assume that I meant that using Bian Stoffregen's initials was to be cute or humorous. It was not.

If you took exception to my use of what are his initials you could have messaged me. Instead, you've attempted to humiliate me, others have piled on and, like when you deleted that guy's post then, when he made a comment having nothing to do with the deletion, you brought it up again, you perpetuate what you consider a problem.

No one is asking you to apologize. Interesting that you should assume that it is being requested. But it would be nice if, as a moderator, you would not publicly bully others and continue rather than limit what you consider rudeness and disrespectibility.

Which I expect, in your power, you will do shortly.
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it’s not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

Charles Austin

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Re: LCMS dissolves Memorandum of Understanding with Boy Scouts of America
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2015, 04:23:05 AM »
Our moderator is not alone in his interpretation of your use of the initials, Pastor Kirchner. At least two or three others here have the same understanding. And there is a simple solution, even if you contend the interpretation is wrong (which I do not think it is). Just stop doing it. Problem solved. You're welcome.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 04:27:20 AM by Charles Austin »
Retired ELCA Pastor. Former national staff Lutheran Church in America And the Lutheran world Federation, Geneva. Former journalist. Now retired and living in Minneapolis.

Fletch

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Re: LCMS dissolves Memorandum of Understanding with Boy Scouts of America
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2015, 06:21:06 AM »

If you took exception to my use of what are his initials you could have messaged me. Instead, you've attempted to humiliate me, others have piled on and, like when you deleted that guy's post then, when he made a comment having nothing to do with the deletion, you brought it up again, you perpetuate what you consider a problem.


My thoughts exactly, especially on a religious forum with a heavy dose of Seminary graduates as participants.  I'd like to think we are better than this.  Perhaps we should reread the 8th Commandment thread.   :'(

... Fletch
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 06:28:17 AM by Fletch »

Harvey_Mozolak

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Re: LCMS dissolves Memorandum of Understanding with Boy Scouts of America
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2015, 07:24:30 AM »
I suppose one could also research whether Brian was always refered to by his initials or if that changed.  Are others refered to by initials without periods and the like.m?  Was there a post or a series of posts that might have precipitated such a change in reference?   I don't know what such review would show but some are good at such research. 
Harvey S. Mozolak
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http://lineandletterlettuce.blogspot.com

Charles Austin

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Re: LCMS dissolves Memorandum of Understanding with Boy Scouts of America
« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2015, 09:15:32 AM »
Rather weary, am I, of the 8th Commandment shibboleth. The commandment does not prevent us from calling someone a jerk when it is not lying to say they are a jerk.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Former national staff Lutheran Church in America And the Lutheran world Federation, Geneva. Former journalist. Now retired and living in Minneapolis.

MaddogLutheran

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Re: LCMS dissolves Memorandum of Understanding with Boy Scouts of America
« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2015, 09:46:35 AM »
Rather weary, am I, of the 8th Commandment shibboleth. The commandment does not prevent us from calling someone a jerk when it is not lying to say they are a jerk.
No, it doesn't.  I know I'm very weary.

If we're going to clear the air, I will say I take offense at you calling what I said previously "8th Commandment shibboleth".  I really meant what I said.

Sterling Spatz
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 09:48:23 AM by MaddogLutheran »
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LutherMan

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Re: LCMS dissolves Memorandum of Understanding with Boy Scouts of America
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2016, 03:55:36 PM »
http://www.wkow.com/story/31330598/2016/02/26/some-wisconsin-churches-drop-partnerships-with-boy-scouts

Janesville, Appleton churches drop partnerships with Boy Scouts

MADISON (WKOW) -- Several Wisconsin churches, including one in our area, are ending long-term partnerships with Boy Scouts troops.

A church in Appleton and one in Janesville are cutting ties with troops. This comes after the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod issued a statement in December, saying it would dissolve its relationship with Boy Scouts of America for its decision to allow openly gay leaders to serve in the organization.

The statement reads, in part:

"..the recent Boy Scouts of America (BSA) adult leadership standards change — effected by the BSA National Executive Board July 10, 2015, that lifted the BSA’s ban on openly gay Scout leaders — caused great concern and has led us formally to dissolve the Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) between The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod (LCMS) and the BSA. As of Dec. 1, 2015, the LCMS no longer has an official relationship with the BSA.

We deeply appreciate the continued patience of the LCMS as the Office of the President, the Commission on Theology and Church Relations (CTCR), the Synod’s legal counsel and the Office of National Mission spent time examining the LCMS’ history with Scouting, talking with LCMS pastors who are involved in Scouting as well as top leadership of the BSA, considering potential legal issues and looking into alternative Scouting programs. This continues to be no small undertaking."

Churches are just one of many groups that sponsor troops in Wisconsin. They've long held partnerships, offering leadership, a place to meet and sometimes financial support. LCMS advises thousands of churches in the U.S., including many in Wisconsin, but the decision to sponsor scouting has always been left up to the individual churches to decide.

Don Olsen, director of field services for the Glacier's Edge Council in southern Wisconsin, says shortly after LCMS made its decision the council learned a Janesville church was dropping its troop.

"It's always saddening that we have to lose a long-time partner, but they also have their beliefs and desires so we have to respect that and that's fine," Olsen says. "We do have a lot of organizations out there that are willing and happy to help sponsor a unit, so it wasn't that difficult to go and find somebody to take on that responsibility."

There are four Lutheran churches in Janesville in the Missouri synod. 27 News reached out to them for comment on this topic but calls were not returned Friday afternoon.

Olsen says since learning of the decision, the Janesville troop has found a new charter and has moved on. Otherwise, the council hasn't been affected by the Boy Scouts' new policy and Olsen isn't aware of any other partnerships at risk. He says membership and support are still growing.