Author Topic: RC Synod on the Family, October 4-25, 2015  (Read 4634 times)

Dan Fienen

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Re: RC Synod on the Family, October 4-25, 2015
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2015, 02:55:51 PM »
Separate from theological concerns, there is disagreement within the psychological community as to the nature of gender dysphoria and proper treatment.   Dr. Paul R. McHugh, the former psychiatrist-in-chief for Johns Hopkins Hospital and its current Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry, has argued that gender dysphoria is a mental disorder and the gender reassignment surgery is not a beneficial treatment, especially for those diagnosed young, even preadolescent.  We should be careful about making theological points when the science is not yet clear lest we hitch our theological wagon to a theory that ends up discredited.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 02:59:43 PM by Dan Fienen »
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SomeoneWrites

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Re: RC Synod on the Family, October 4-25, 2015
« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2015, 04:54:51 PM »
Separate from theological concerns, there is disagreement within the psychological community as to the nature of gender dysphoria and proper treatment.   Dr. Paul R. McHugh, the former psychiatrist-in-chief for Johns Hopkins Hospital and its current Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry, has argued that gender dysphoria is a mental disorder and the gender reassignment surgery is not a beneficial treatment, especially for those diagnosed young, even preadolescent.  We should be careful about making theological points when the science is not yet clear lest we hitch our theological wagon to a theory that ends up discredited.

Gender dysphoria is definitely not a settled issue.  I'm definitely curious about the research.  I hope they continue with it.
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: RC Synod on the Family, October 4-25, 2015
« Reply #47 on: October 23, 2015, 06:16:36 PM »

I'm sorry that you were unable to catch my point. Peter did.

Is that an apology?


It's the kind my wife makes all the time.
"The church ... had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Mel Harris

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Re: RC Synod on the Family, October 4-25, 2015
« Reply #48 on: October 25, 2015, 08:19:00 AM »
       The synod is set to conclude today (while some of us are remembering the posting of The 95 Theses).  According to a number of reports online, the report of the synod has 94 articles or sections.  If anyone can find an English translation of the report posted, please post a link to it.

Michael Slusser

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Re: RC Synod on the Family, October 4-25, 2015
« Reply #49 on: October 25, 2015, 09:40:11 AM »
       The synod is set to conclude today (while some of us are remembering the posting of The 95 Theses).  According to a number of reports online, the report of the synod has 94 articles or sections.  If anyone can find an English translation of the report posted, please post a link to it.
I'm watching for an English translation. Meanwhile, this report is useful reading: http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/sinodo-famiglia-44212/

Peace,
Michael
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Charles Austin

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Re: RC Synod on the Family, October 4-25, 2015
« Reply #50 on: October 25, 2015, 10:02:06 AM »
Reuters and The New York Times have long articles about the document. Google News will get you more.
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Michael Slusser

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Re: RC Synod on the Family, October 4-25, 2015
« Reply #51 on: October 26, 2015, 11:17:01 AM »
While I still wait for the translation of the final document of the Synod to appear in English, I have looked at the voting figures (the bishops voted separately on each of the 94 paragraphs of the text):

65 of the 94 paragraphs were passed with fewer than 10 negative votes; 5 were approved unanimously
16 more of the paragraphs were passed with fewer than 20 negative votes
5 more received fewer than 30 negative votes

That gets us up to 86 out of 94 paragraphs in which the "Yes" votes were 88% or better, mostly better.
There were 8 paragraphs where there was more disagreement:
#74: 36 against (13.6%)        #76: 37 against (14%)        #71: 42 against (15.8%)       #70: 47 against (17.7%)
#75: 52 against (19.6%)        #86: 64 against (24.2%)     #84: 72 against (27.2%)       #85: 80 against (30.3%)   

I have seen figures that appear closer than these figures http://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2015/10/24/0816/01825.html do, but I am not sure what the methodology behind them is.

Peace,
Michael
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John_Hannah

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Re: RC Synod on the Family, October 4-25, 2015
« Reply #52 on: October 26, 2015, 11:33:55 AM »
Thank you, Michael. That lays it out nicely.

Peace, JOHN
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Michael Slusser

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Re: RC Synod on the Family, October 4-25, 2015
« Reply #53 on: October 26, 2015, 11:36:29 AM »
At the end of the Synod, Pope Francis spoke to the council fathers in forthright terms, most of which, I think, will be pleasing to Lutheran ears http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/speeches/2015/october/documents/papa-francesco_20151024_sinodo-conclusione-lavori.html

Here is a key paragraph:
Quote
The Synod experience also made us better realize that the true defenders of doctrine are not those who uphold its letter, but its spirit; not ideas but people; not formulae but the gratuitousness of God’s love and forgiveness. This is in no way to detract from the importance of formulae – they are necessary – or from the importance of laws and divine commandments, but rather to exalt the greatness of the true God, who does not treat us according to our merits or even according to our works but solely according to the boundless generosity of his Mercy (cf. Rom 3:21-30; Ps 129; Lk 11:47-54). It does have to do with overcoming the recurring temptations of the elder brother (cf. Lk 15:25-32) and the jealous labourers (cf. Mt 20:1-16). Indeed, it means upholding all the more the laws and commandments which were made for man and not vice versa (cf. Mk 2:27).

In this sense, the necessary human repentance, works and efforts take on a deeper meaning, not as the price of that salvation freely won for us by Christ on the cross, but as a response to the One who loved us first and saved us at the cost of his innocent blood, while we were still sinners (cf. Rom 5:6).

Peace,
Michael
« Last Edit: October 26, 2015, 11:38:31 AM by Michael Slusser »
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John_Hannah

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Re: RC Synod on the Family, October 4-25, 2015
« Reply #54 on: October 26, 2015, 12:44:37 PM »
At the end of the Synod, Pope Francis spoke to the council fathers in forthright terms, most of which, I think, will be pleasing to Lutheran ears http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/speeches/2015/october/documents/papa-francesco_20151024_sinodo-conclusione-lavori.html

Here is a key paragraph:
Quote
The Synod experience also made us better realize that the true defenders of doctrine are not those who uphold its letter, but its spirit; not ideas but people; not formulae but the gratuitousness of God’s love and forgiveness. This is in no way to detract from the importance of formulae – they are necessary – or from the importance of laws and divine commandments, but rather to exalt the greatness of the true God, who does not treat us according to our merits or even according to our works but solely according to the boundless generosity of his Mercy (cf. Rom 3:21-30; Ps 129; Lk 11:47-54). It does have to do with overcoming the recurring temptations of the elder brother (cf. Lk 15:25-32) and the jealous labourers (cf. Mt 20:1-16). Indeed, it means upholding all the more the laws and commandments which were made for man and not vice versa (cf. Mk 2:27).

In this sense, the necessary human repentance, works and efforts take on a deeper meaning, not as the price of that salvation freely won for us by Christ on the cross, but as a response to the One who loved us first and saved us at the cost of his innocent blood, while we were still sinners (cf. Rom 5:6).

Peace,
Michael

"...will be pleasing to Lutheran ears"  It sure is! None of us (Lutherans) could say it better.

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

LutherMan

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Re: RC Synod on the Family, October 4-25, 2015
« Reply #55 on: November 09, 2015, 11:04:34 AM »
Who won? Who lost? Five points on Vatican summit

http://blogs.lcms.org/2015/five-points-on-vatican-summit

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: RC Synod on the Family, October 4-25, 2015
« Reply #56 on: November 09, 2015, 04:41:30 PM »
Who won? Who lost? Five points on Vatican summit

http://blogs.lcms.org/2015/five-points-on-vatican-summit

Perhaps it should be noted that this is the LCMS News & Information posting of a Religion News Service article.

spt+
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 06:46:40 PM by The Rev. Steven P. Tibbetts, STS »
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Michael Slusser

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Re: RC Synod on the Family, October 4-25, 2015
« Reply #57 on: November 09, 2015, 04:58:44 PM »
Who won? Who lost? Five points on Vatican summit

http://blogs.lcms.org/2015/five-points-on-vatican-summit

Perhpas it should be noted that this is the LCMS News & Information posting of a Religion News Service article.

spt+
I noticed that--that accounts for the absurd "win or lose" hermeneutic.

Peace,
Michael
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