Author Topic: Least favorite hymns in the hymnal...  (Read 10841 times)

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Least favorite hymns in the hymnal...
« Reply #120 on: October 08, 2015, 09:51:22 AM »
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my least favorite verse in the hymnal is from "Once in Royal David's City"  "Christian children all must be.... Mild obedient good as he."    200% Law there

I'm not fond of "You call us Lord to be"  too much modern social action works righteousness imo.  But i've chosen it because of the tune "rhosymedre".  someday I'll find a Japanese version of Crossman's:  " My song is love unknown"

I'd rather talk about good hymns, new good hymns, ones old or new that folks have just encountered.   I think my most recent 2 are Unde et Memores  and Harts.

my best to all on this blue sky morning
james

That is one of my favorite verses- holding Jesus up as a model of obedience.  Sometimes we all need a bit of law.

Christian children must be perfect like Jesus..."a bit of law"...that'll get them to behave.   ::)

A favorite "verse"? Oh, how we love the law.

Quite honestly, it's more sentiment.  I think it is a sweet way to state how we are to follow Jesus - we do say that, don't we????   Actually the words I learned:  Children, children all should be; Mild, obedient, good as he.  It's not suggesting that children will enter into fire should they not obey.   

So, the original, which you stated you loved, i.e., all children must be perfect like Jesus, actually now is a bit harsh, that it was by some changed to all children should be perfect like Jesus? For "must" is an imperative requirement (What is the punishment for not meeting that requirement? That "our eyes [shall not] at last...see Him"?) whereas "should" is simply sweet sentiment, something to which we should aspire, Jesus as a model?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2015, 10:35:31 AM by Pr. Don Kirchner »
Don Kirchner

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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Least favorite hymns in the hymnal...
« Reply #121 on: October 08, 2015, 11:04:51 AM »
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my least favorite verse in the hymnal is from "Once in Royal David's City"  "Christian children all must be.... Mild obedient good as he."    200% Law there


I found that line in the SBH, but not in LBW, LW, ELW, or LSB. They all removed that stanza.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

LutherMan

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Re: Least favorite hymns in the hymnal...
« Reply #122 on: October 08, 2015, 11:17:48 AM »
I don't see any reason why they added a second tune for My Hope is Built in LSB...

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Least favorite hymns in the hymnal...
« Reply #123 on: October 08, 2015, 11:28:08 AM »
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my least favorite verse in the hymnal is from "Once in Royal David's City"  "Christian children all must be.... Mild obedient good as he."    200% Law there

I found that line in the SBH, but not in LBW, LW, ELW, or LSB. They all removed that stanza.

Hmm, wonder why.  It was the favorite "verse" of some.
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it’s not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

Eileen Smith

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Re: Least favorite hymns in the hymnal...
« Reply #124 on: October 08, 2015, 11:28:50 AM »
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my least favorite verse in the hymnal is from "Once in Royal David's City"  "Christian children all must be.... Mild obedient good as he."    200% Law there

I'm not fond of "You call us Lord to be"  too much modern social action works righteousness imo.  But i've chosen it because of the tune "rhosymedre".  someday I'll find a Japanese version of Crossman's:  " My song is love unknown"

I'd rather talk about good hymns, new good hymns, ones old or new that folks have just encountered.   I think my most recent 2 are Unde et Memores  and Harts.

my best to all on this blue sky morning
james



That is one of my favorite verses- holding Jesus up as a model of obedience.  Sometimes we all need a bit of law.

Christian children must be perfect like Jesus..."a bit of law"...that'll get them to behave.   ::)

A favorite "verse"? Oh, how we love the law.

Quite honestly, it's more sentiment.  I think it is a sweet way to state how we are to follow Jesus - we do say that, don't we????   Actually the words I learned:  Children, children all should be; Mild, obedient, good as he.  It's not suggesting that children will enter into fire should they not obey.   

So, the original, which you stated you loved, i.e., all children must be perfect like Jesus, actually now is a bit harsh, that it was by some changed to all children should be perfect like Jesus? For "must" is an imperative requirement (What is the punishment for not meeting that requirement? That "our eyes [shall not] at last...see Him"?) whereas "should" is simply sweet sentiment, something to which we should aspire, Jesus as a model?

You're reading far more into what was intended as rather light post this morning.  I like the tune of "Once…"  We use it as a processional when we do Lessons & Carols.   We print it out and the words we use are the words as mentioned above.  I'll be honest when I saw that I glanced at J. Eriksson's post and what stood out was "200% law there."  "Must" didn't even register.   I thought i was responding in a light manner; apparently not!   I don't thin I ever stated that "must" was a bit harsh.  I simply learned "should."  As to simply, sweet sentiment - no I don't think that our being like Jesus is simply sweet sentiment.  I do think that looking at this hymn as addressed to all people, regardless of age, is a sweet way of expressing discipleship.  I have no problem  singing "must."   In the verses that follow we do see Gospel for we do fail even in those things we must do.   There are times when law can be sweet.

We don't know one another and we've never served together in areas of worship.  I've served on both congregation and synod worship committees and I can assure you I don't look at liturgy or hymns as offering up sentimentality.  I've led the resistance on our current worship committee on ELW and would choose a good 16th century chorale over WOV any day.  But sometimes - yes - I long for a sweet way to sing of our faith.  It's often helpful to people whose faith is like that of a child.   I wish our children learned some of the hymns I grew up with as a little child, some of which I still sing.  They're sweet, but good:  I am Jesus little lamb.  Ever glad at heart I am.  For my shepherd gently guides me, knows my needs and well supplies me.  Loves me every day the same.  Even calls me by my name.   

I enjoy the Forum but I do think that corresponding with those we've never met does lead us to read things into posts that we might not see if we knew the person.

Eileen Smith

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Re: Least favorite hymns in the hymnal...
« Reply #125 on: October 08, 2015, 11:31:14 AM »
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my least favorite verse in the hymnal is from "Once in Royal David's City"  "Christian children all must be.... Mild obedient good as he."    200% Law there

I found that line in the SBH, but not in LBW, LW, ELW, or LSB. They all removed that stanza.

Hmm, wonder why.  It was the favorite "verse" of some.

Ah!  Now it comes back to me.  That's correct, the verse is removed.  I read it on-line and did like it and suggested we add it.  We print the words out to capture this verse.  We've been singing the hymn with this verse about 5-6 years now.   And, yes, I always get copyrights. 

I don't think that one has to think too hard to come up with a reason why it's not made some of our hymnals. 

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Least favorite hymns in the hymnal...
« Reply #126 on: October 08, 2015, 11:40:17 AM »
back to topic
my least favorite verse in the hymnal is from "Once in Royal David's City"  "Christian children all must be.... Mild obedient good as he."    200% Law there

I found that line in the SBH, but not in LBW, LW, ELW, or LSB. They all removed that stanza.

Hmm, wonder why.  It was the favorite "verse" of some.

Ah!  Now it comes back to me.  That's correct, the verse is removed.  I read it on-line and did like it and suggested we add it.  We print the words out to capture this verse.  We've been singing the hymn with this verse about 5-6 years now.   And, yes, I always get copyrights. 


It's in the public domain. No copyright permission is required (unless you are using a copyrighted arrangement). The melody, lyrics, and arrangement can be copyrighted separately.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

peterm

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Re: Least favorite hymns in the hymnal...
« Reply #127 on: October 08, 2015, 11:42:07 AM »
I don't see any reason why they added a second tune for My Hope is Built in LSB...

Reflects the same hymn from a different tradition (in this case the alternate tune was popular in early Norwegian hymnals.
Rev. Peter Morlock- ELCA pastor serving two congregations in WIS

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Least favorite hymns in the hymnal...
« Reply #128 on: October 08, 2015, 11:43:06 AM »
I wish our children learned some of the hymns I grew up with as a little child, some of which I still sing.  They're sweet, but good:  I am Jesus little lamb.  Ever glad at heart I am.  For my shepherd gently guides me, knows my needs and well supplies me.  Loves me every day the same.  Even calls me by my name.   

Our children do learn them. LSB 740, LW 517, TLH 648.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2015, 11:58:34 AM by Pr. Don Kirchner »
Don Kirchner

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Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Least favorite hymns in the hymnal...
« Reply #129 on: October 08, 2015, 11:44:21 AM »
I don't think that one has to think too hard to come up with a reason why it's not made some of our hymnals.

200% law?
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it’s not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

LutherMan

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Re: Least favorite hymns in the hymnal...
« Reply #130 on: October 08, 2015, 11:46:11 AM »
I wish our children learned some of the hymns I grew up with as a little child, some of which I still sing.  They're sweet, but good:  I am Jesus little lamb.  Ever glad at heart I am.  For my shepherd gently guides me, knows my needs and well supplies me.  Loves me every day the same.  Even calls me by my name. 
One of my favorites...

Eileen Smith

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Re: Least favorite hymns in the hymnal...
« Reply #131 on: October 08, 2015, 12:31:05 PM »
I don't think that one has to think too hard to come up with a reason why it's not made some of our hymnals.

200% law?

That would be it. 

I've thought a bit further about your post on "must."  I live in a town that loves high school sports.  Athletes "must" be at practice, be it Sunday or any other day or there are consequences.  In school one learns multiplication.  3x3 "must equal 9.  We don't equivocate and tell our children if they'd like it to equal 18, that's okay too.  The speed limit in our town is 25 mph.  This isn't a suggestion.  When I worked in a regulated business, we had forms that accompanied each financial transaction.  Filling them out correctly was a must.  Why can't we say that one "must" follow Jesus.   ;)

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Least favorite hymns in the hymnal...
« Reply #132 on: October 08, 2015, 01:00:05 PM »
I don't think that one has to think too hard to come up with a reason why it's not made some of our hymnals.

200% law?

That would be it. 

I've thought a bit further about your post on "must."  I live in a town that loves high school sports.  Athletes "must" be at practice, be it Sunday or any other day or there are consequences.  In school one learns multiplication.  3x3 "must equal 9.  We don't equivocate and tell our children if they'd like it to equal 18, that's okay too.  The speed limit in our town is 25 mph.  This isn't a suggestion.  When I worked in a regulated business, we had forms that accompanied each financial transaction.  Filling them out correctly was a must.  Why can't we say that one "must" follow Jesus.   ;)

We can. But that's not the issue.

If athletes do not show for practice, they are off the team. If you speed you get a ticket. And so on. Using your examples and line of thinking, if you're not as good as Jesus, i.e., perfect, the "must" means you're punished, you're off the team, i.e, you're out of the Kingdom.

Would be a quite empty Kingdom...
« Last Edit: October 08, 2015, 01:06:26 PM by Pr. Don Kirchner »
Don Kirchner

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Eileen Smith

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Re: Least favorite hymns in the hymnal...
« Reply #133 on: October 08, 2015, 01:24:04 PM »
I don't think that one has to think too hard to come up with a reason why it's not made some of our hymnals.

200% law?

That would be it. 

I've thought a bit further about your post on "must."  I live in a town that loves high school sports.  Athletes "must" be at practice, be it Sunday or any other day or there are consequences.  In school one learns multiplication.  3x3 "must equal 9.  We don't equivocate and tell our children if they'd like it to equal 18, that's okay too.  The speed limit in our town is 25 mph.  This isn't a suggestion.  When I worked in a regulated business, we had forms that accompanied each financial transaction.  Filling them out correctly was a must.  Why can't we say that one "must" follow Jesus.   ;)

We can. But that's not the issue.

If athletes do not show for practice, they are off the team. If you speed you get a ticket. Using your examples and line of thinking, if you're not as good as Jesus, I.e., perfect, the "must" means you're punished, you're off the team, i.e, you're out of the Kingdom.

Would be a quite empty Kingdom...

I do understand.  My point is we tend to raise the bar so high for other areas of our lives but often not when it comes to our faith.  Why can't we ask more of ourselves.  May I offer up an example of a conversation I had just yesterday.  A parent in our town (not our congregation) spoke to me of her outrage over the fact that her child must sign in at church.  This child is in confirmation class and this is a way of monitoring the worship attendance of the students.  The mother saw no reason why worship would be a component of confirmation and felt it an intrusion that her child must be "made" to go to church.  I suppose this is where I'm going.  Why can't we say to our children, our spouse, ourselves - you 'must.'   Imagine a family prayer where we would confess together - I hurt you… I misbehaved… I didn't honor the Sabbath… and share God's words of forgiveness.   The consequences aren't being put off the Team, but may be found in our own lives.  There is a peace that comes with seeing God's will, with being connected in prayer, with recognizing our sin and giving thanks for our salvation.  Should we have a healthy fear of God (we should fear, love, and trust…).  By pushing aside those things, be it hymns, words of confession (some of what has come out lately is just plain awful), a sermon do we water down the faith and simply have a feel good club.  Can we appreciate the Gospel if we haven't heard the law. 

John_Hannah

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Re: Least favorite hymns in the hymnal...
« Reply #134 on: October 08, 2015, 01:57:29 PM »
I don't see any reason why they added a second tune for My Hope is Built in LSB...

That's really the original tune from "evangelicaldom." I like it sung to "Melita" (as one option in the LBW).

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS