Author Topic: Planned Parenthood  (Read 34623 times)

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Planned Parenthood
« Reply #225 on: August 20, 2015, 10:16:10 AM »
It's on the New Yorker web page, Steven! What does it matter whether it was in the magazine or not? Maybe it was. We shall see. Steven might not be reading their minds correctly.


Magazines have editors.  Weblogs, not so much. 

The best satirists and comics -- and my experience of The New Yorker is that it traditionally sets a pretty high bar in that department -- miss now and then.  Jumping up and down saying Republicans are mean can be done in a satirical or wickedly-funny way. I see it, even laugh at it, all the time.  This one simply missed.  Badly.

Of course, even a President Trump is not going to expel 11 million (or how ever many there are) illegal immigrants.  We simply cannot do it, having neither the capability nor the stomach for doing what would be necessary to deport that many people, a goodly portion of whom do necessary work.  Even the most rabid closed borders type, when pressed for specifics, will acknowledge (if grudgingly) that.  And, FWIW, I've long stated on this forum that I'm for open borders.

Planned Parenthood (the subject here) and its defenders both in and out of this church don't blink at the destruction of over 55 million lives by abortion, even the 52.5 million (at my understated 95% rate) Pastor Stoffregen is willing to define as not morally justified according to our Abortion Social Statement.  You can harp all you want at what others say they want to do, but by setting that aside you cede any moral high ground in this thread.

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Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Planned Parenthood
« Reply #226 on: August 20, 2015, 10:36:14 AM »

I think you are misunderstanding point and assuming that I have no experience with the pro-life movement or pregnancy centers.  I actually have quite a bit of experience....

I am pleased by this, Scott.  Alas, you spoke exactly the same as those around me -- remember, I'm in the ELCA and have participated in ecumenical gatherings with "mainline" protestants -- who high-handedly accuse the pro-life movement of not caring one iota for mother and child once it is born. 

And when I (the Lutheran intern) said, "That's not true," to the UMC pastor in Helena, Montana, during a pericope study in 1990, there were only a couple hundred crisis pregnancy centers around the country -- the one in Berkeley, California, which I had been sending an offering to while a seminarian at PLTS. 

We needed to do more then.  Now there are over 4000 such centers across the nation.  A second full-service one opened a year-and-a-half ago here in Peoria, and that does not include the more informal ways pro-lifers in this city (and hundreds of others) support mothers during pregnancy and into the life of their children.  So we are doing more, and more each week.  So as I will challenge pro-choicers who don't want that story told, so I will challenge pro-lifers who don't tell it -- even when they are participating in it! 

How else are women fearing or in an unplanned pregnancy going to know there are scads of alternatives to Planned Parenthood?

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Re: Planned Parenthood
« Reply #227 on: August 20, 2015, 10:49:19 AM »
People who call for the pro-lifers to stop advocating for laws in order to help people more effectively are generally people who don't like pro-life laws. How about recommending that people stop resisting the laws the pro-lifers lobby for (or, more accurately, stop defending the court decisions that pro-lifers lobby against) and that problem will go away. Then we can unite in serving people in need. It takes two to disagree.

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Re: Planned Parenthood
« Reply #228 on: August 20, 2015, 10:51:29 AM »
Mr. Hummel writes:
Jumping up & down saying Republicans are mean is not funny.

I comment:
No, actually, it is quite sad; because there is some underlying truth; hence in the right situations, it can be hilarious.
You have an opinion on those who would have mass deportations of people from our country? Or on those who would send their children back to a land where they have never lived? Or on policies that prevent their elderly parents from coming here to be cared for by their children? Or on separating husbands and wives?
BTW "satire" does not have to be funny. Consider Jonathan Swift. Not many laughs there, but deft and satirical social analysis.


Your Swift reference is quite appropriate.  The title of his most famous essay is "A Modest Proposal for Preventing the Children of Poor People From Being a Burden to Their Parents or Country, and for Making Them Beneficial to the Publick."  It bites hard at the rationale underlying PP's gruesome practices.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 04:45:05 PM by James_Gale »

Steverem

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Re: Planned Parenthood
« Reply #229 on: August 20, 2015, 10:59:10 AM »
Mr. Hummel writes:
Jumping up & down saying Republicans are mean is not funny.

I comment:
No, actually, it is quite sad; because there is some underlying truth; hence in the right situations, it can be hilarious.
You have an opinion on those who would have mass deportations of people from our country? Or on those who would send their children back to a land where they have never lived? Or on policies that prevent their elderly parents from coming here to be cared for by their children? Or on separating husbands and wives?
BTW "satire" does not have to be funny. Consider Jonathan Swift. Not many laughs there, but deft and satirical social analysis.


Your Swift reference is quite appropriate.  The title of his most famous essay is "A Modest Proposal for Preventing the Children of Poor People From Being a Burden to Their Parents or Country, and for Making Then Beneficial to the Publick."  It bites hard at the rationale underlying PP's gruesome practices.

Zing!

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Re: Planned Parenthood
« Reply #230 on: August 20, 2015, 11:03:16 AM »
So folks know, protests against Planned Parenthood are being planned across the nation for this Saturday, 9-11 am.  Here is the website, and it contains information on the locations of those protests across the country along with the contact info of the local person organizing that protest.

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Re: Planned Parenthood
« Reply #231 on: August 20, 2015, 12:22:10 PM »
Mr. Hummel writes:
Jumping up & down saying Republicans are mean is not funny.

I comment:
No, actually, it is quite sad; because there is some underlying truth; hence in the right situations, it can be hilarious.
You have an opinion on those who would have mass deportations of people from our country? Or on those who would send their children back to a land where they have never lived? Or on policies that prevent their elderly parents from coming here to be cared for by their children? Or on separating husbands and wives?
BTW "satire" does not have to be funny. Consider Jonathan Swift. Not many laughs there, but deft and satirical social analysis.
The irony of all this is that the people generally decry the idea of "American exceptionalism" are the very people who are generally offended or flabbergasted that anyone would suggest we should have immigration/deportation policies like other developed countries have. Try just showing up in Canada, or Australia, or Japan, or Italy, or you name it and expecting to live and work with no visa, no green card or any paperwork whatsoever that implies citizenship or permission to be there. If you do try that, you'll soon realize just how exceptional America is in this regard.

I'm all for immigration-- the more the merrier-- but in a legal, orderly, regulated way that rewards those who do it right instead of those who simply sneak in.


The thousands who are coming from Central America are doing it legally. They turn themselves in to the border patrol. They seek refugee status. Our laws allow them to stay here until there can be a court hearing about their status. (The laws are different for those coming in from the border countries: Canada and Mexico.)


Many of the undocumented came here legally. They let their green cards lapse. Migrant workers are not always in places where they receive mail so they aren't notified that they need to renew their documentation. They are busy harvesting the foods that feeds us.
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Re: Planned Parenthood
« Reply #232 on: August 20, 2015, 01:10:36 PM »
Mr. Hummel writes:
Jumping up & down saying Republicans are mean is not funny.

I comment:
No, actually, it is quite sad; because there is some underlying truth; hence in the right situations, it can be hilarious.
You have an opinion on those who would have mass deportations of people from our country? Or on those who would send their children back to a land where they have never lived? Or on policies that prevent their elderly parents from coming here to be cared for by their children? Or on separating husbands and wives?
BTW "satire" does not have to be funny. Consider Jonathan Swift. Not many laughs there, but deft and satirical social analysis.
The irony of all this is that the people generally decry the idea of "American exceptionalism" are the very people who are generally offended or flabbergasted that anyone would suggest we should have immigration/deportation policies like other developed countries have. Try just showing up in Canada, or Australia, or Japan, or Italy, or you name it and expecting to live and work with no visa, no green card or any paperwork whatsoever that implies citizenship or permission to be there. If you do try that, you'll soon realize just how exceptional America is in this regard.

I'm all for immigration-- the more the merrier-- but in a legal, orderly, regulated way that rewards those who do it right instead of those who simply sneak in.


The thousands who are coming from Central America are doing it legally. They turn themselves in to the border patrol. They seek refugee status. Our laws allow them to stay here until there can be a court hearing about their status. (The laws are different for those coming in from the border countries: Canada and Mexico.)


Many of the undocumented came here legally. They let their green cards lapse. Migrant workers are not always in places where they receive mail so they aren't notified that they need to renew their documentation. They are busy harvesting the foods that feeds us.


This is wrong in a number of ways.


First, with very minor exceptions, permanent resident status (the status documented by a green card) does not lapse unless a person abandons that status (e.g., by moving out of the US with the intent of establishing permanent residence in another country).  Green cards do expire.  But the failure to renew does not terminate permanent resident status (just as the expiration of a passport does not extinguish citizenship).   


Visas authorizing temporary presence in the US do expire.  It is a violation of law for anyone other than a citizen or permanent resident to remain in the US beyond the time authorized by DHS.  Such violations are never the result of a lack of access to mail.  A person need look no further than his or her passport (and related documents) to see the date by which he or she must leave the US.  The government generally does not provide notice of such expirations, by mail or otherwise.


You're also wrong in your description of illegal aliens from Central America.  First, you throw them all in one bucket and assume that the facts relating to all are the same.  They are not.  Second, almost all cross the border illegally.  Nobody doing this "came here legally."  Some do then turn themselves over to ICE.  However, this does not make their entry legal (any more than a thief renders his actions legal by turning himself in to the police). 


You are also wrong that these people then seek refugee status.  One must be outside the US to apply for this status.  Some no doubt ask for asylum -- a different status.  But this almost always fails.  Economic hardship or generalized fear of violence are not enough to support such claims.

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Re: Planned Parenthood
« Reply #233 on: August 20, 2015, 01:40:24 PM »
So I can write satirically:

.Charles, Brian and Norman would never personally own a Black person, but recognize that the Constitution says they are only 3/5 human. They decrie slavery and have personally made sure the Union of Concerned Lutheran Hand Wringers never has its national assemblies in Slave states.

Charles, Brian and Norman would never kill someone with an ID/DD, or who was a slav or a Jew. But the Third Reich is a duly constituted foreign government. But have no fear that UCLHW has issued a Social Statement calling the Germans mean in the strongest possible terms! And they are calling for a boycott of cute little German Christmas thingies.

You're right- satire is fun!
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Re: Planned Parenthood
« Reply #234 on: August 20, 2015, 02:14:23 PM »
So I can write satirically:

.Charles, Brian and Norman would never personally own a Black person, but recognize that the Constitution says they are only 3/5 human. They decrie slavery and have personally made sure the Union of Concerned Lutheran Hand Wringers never has its national assemblies in Slave states.

Charles, Brian and Norman would never kill someone with an ID/DD, or who was a slav or a Jew. But the Third Reich is a duly constituted foreign government. But have no fear that UCLHW has issued a Social Statement calling the Germans mean in the strongest possible terms! And they are calling for a boycott of cute little German Christmas thingies.

You're right- satire is fun!

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/02/why-theres-no-conservative-jon-stewart/385480/
http://www.salon.com/2014/12/23/conservatives_just_arent_funny_why_the_right_will_never_have_its_own_stephen_colbert_partner/
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Matt Hummel

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Re: Planned Parenthood
« Reply #235 on: August 20, 2015, 04:09:17 PM »
So I can write satirically:

.Charles, Brian and Norman would never personally own a Black person, but recognize that the Constitution says they are only 3/5 human. They decrie slavery and have personally made sure the Union of Concerned Lutheran Hand Wringers never has its national assemblies in Slave states.

Charles, Brian and Norman would never kill someone with an ID/DD, or who was a slav or a Jew. But the Third Reich is a duly constituted foreign government. But have no fear that UCLHW has issued a Social Statement calling the Germans mean in the strongest possible terms! And they are calling for a boycott of cute little German Christmas thingies.

You're right- satire is fun!

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/02/why-theres-no-conservative-jon-stewart/385480/
http://www.salon.com/2014/12/23/conservatives_just_arent_funny_why_the_right_will_never_have_its_own_stephen_colbert_partner/

Two thoughts come to.mind-

A century later and Chesterton still wipes the floor with those two, w/o recourse to the word f*** or any of its cognates.

One could also argue that it was humor & satire deployed against leftist reimes like the USSR and Third Reich.

As an added point, satire works to tear down. Conservatives do not wish to tear down, but conserve.

Personal experience- the most humorless dour people it has been my displeasure to know have almost all been ardent Leftists/Progressives. Or Calvinists.

Listen to what the comedians are saying about performing on campuses.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 04:10:49 PM by Prolife Professional »
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Re: Planned Parenthood
« Reply #236 on: August 20, 2015, 04:51:16 PM »
So I can write satirically:

.Charles, Brian and Norman would never personally own a Black person, but recognize that the Constitution says they are only 3/5 human. They decrie slavery and have personally made sure the Union of Concerned Lutheran Hand Wringers never has its national assemblies in Slave states.

Charles, Brian and Norman would never kill someone with an ID/DD, or who was a slav or a Jew. But the Third Reich is a duly constituted foreign government. But have no fear that UCLHW has issued a Social Statement calling the Germans mean in the strongest possible terms! And they are calling for a boycott of cute little German Christmas thingies.

You're right- satire is fun!

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/02/why-theres-no-conservative-jon-stewart/385480/
http://www.salon.com/2014/12/23/conservatives_just_arent_funny_why_the_right_will_never_have_its_own_stephen_colbert_partner/

Stewart and Colbert were much funnier when we had a Republican President and conservative talk radio was at it's highest level of influence.  They did a good job of exposing the hypocrisy and hubris of those in power.  However, with the election of President Obama and the triumph of progressive social causes, they lost their way.  Rather than critiquing those in power, they served as cheerleaders, heaping ridicule and contempt on those who would not march in step.  That's not particularly brave or edgy. 
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Re: Planned Parenthood
« Reply #237 on: August 20, 2015, 04:59:58 PM »
So I can write satirically:

.Charles, Brian and Norman would never personally own a Black person, but recognize that the Constitution says they are only 3/5 human. They decrie slavery and have personally made sure the Union of Concerned Lutheran Hand Wringers never has its national assemblies in Slave states.

Charles, Brian and Norman would never kill someone with an ID/DD, or who was a slav or a Jew. But the Third Reich is a duly constituted foreign government. But have no fear that UCLHW has issued a Social Statement calling the Germans mean in the strongest possible terms! And they are calling for a boycott of cute little German Christmas thingies.

You're right- satire is fun!

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/02/why-theres-no-conservative-jon-stewart/385480/
http://www.salon.com/2014/12/23/conservatives_just_arent_funny_why_the_right_will_never_have_its_own_stephen_colbert_partner/

Stewart and Colbert were much funnier when we had a Republican President and conservative talk radio was at it's highest level of influence.  They did a good job of exposing the hypocrisy and hubris of those in power.  However, with the election of President Obama and the triumph of progressive social causes, they lost their way.  Rather than critiquing those in power, they served as cheerleaders, heaping ridicule and contempt on those who would not march in step.  That's not particularly brave or edgy.

I don't agree.  I saw them critique them as well, and harshly. 
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Robert Johnson

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Re: Planned Parenthood
« Reply #238 on: August 20, 2015, 05:10:26 PM »
I don't agree.  I saw them critique them as well, and harshly.

I did, too, on those occasions when the administration didn't hew closely enough to the progressive agenda.

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Planned Parenthood
« Reply #239 on: August 20, 2015, 05:51:52 PM »

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/02/why-theres-no-conservative-jon-stewart/385480/
http://www.salon.com/2014/12/23/conservatives_just_arent_funny_why_the_right_will_never_have_its_own_stephen_colbert_partner/

SNL alums Dennis Miller (whom The Atlantic mentions) and Victoria Jackson (among others).  R. Emmett Tyrell at The American Spectator.  P. J. O'Rourke and Drew Carey (who identify more as libertarian).  Rush Limbaugh, especially in his earlier days.

That's just off the top of my head, and their audiences are easily as big or (especially in the case of Limbaugh) bigger than Salon, Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert (though we'll see if he works out on The Late Show) and The Atlantic.
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