Author Topic: "Lutheran Diversity" - and Other Myths  (Read 22081 times)

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: "Lutheran Diversity" - and Other Myths
« Reply #270 on: August 19, 2015, 03:46:53 PM »
First, it is not an acronym. An acronym is generally a pronounceable abbreviation, like NATO.  Then, at times I am dictating my comments.  Voice recognition and computer technology is not perfect. I shall try to do better in the future.  (Sometimes, one does not know just what it is that will sizzle the nose hairs of one's readers.)

You're telling me that it's the voice recognition (e.g., Dragon) that puts the space in the initialism LCMS? Blaming the computer?  ::)
Don Kirchner

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Steverem

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Re: "Lutheran Diversity" - and Other Myths
« Reply #271 on: August 19, 2015, 03:54:46 PM »
First, it is not an acronym. An acronym is generally a pronounceable abbreviation, like NATO.  Then, at times I am dictating my comments.  Voice recognition and computer technology is not perfect. I shall try to do better in the future.  (Sometimes, one does not know just what it is that will sizzle the nose hairs of one's readers.)

We've had this discussion before,  While the first dictionary definition of "acronym" is as you describe, the second definition allows for initializations that are not as easily pronounced.  Both are acceptable uses of the term.  But, if you must, feel free to refer to the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod as "LUC-muzz."  We've been called worse.

Charles Austin

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Re: "Lutheran Diversity" - and Other Myths
« Reply #272 on: August 19, 2015, 04:24:43 PM »
 Yes. I say "LCMS" and it comes out "LC MS."
 That's not "blaming" the computer, that's explaining what actually happens.
 Count your blessings. It could come out, perhaps appropriately, "LC Mess."
 Or perhaps a bovine "Elsie miss."
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Now in Minneapolis. One must always ponder both the value and the dangers of poking the bear. Aroused and stimulated, the bear usually shows its true self. Or it might leap to an extreme version of itself. You never know with bears.

Michael Slusser

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Re: "Lutheran Diversity" - and Other Myths
« Reply #273 on: August 19, 2015, 04:27:00 PM »
Yes. I say "LCMS" and it comes out "LC MS."
 That's not "blaming" the computer, that's explaining what actually happens.
 Count your blessings. It could come out, perhaps appropriately, "LC Mess."
 Or perhaps a bovine "Elsie miss."
That may explain why the quote function doesn't work for you. I've noticed that when Peter Speckhard is contributing from his phone, he doesn't quote, and Dave Likeness doesn't quote, either.

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Donald_Kirchner

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Re: "Lutheran Diversity" - and Other Myths
« Reply #274 on: August 19, 2015, 04:35:01 PM »
I will say it clearly and without horns and without teeth. Craig regularly insults the ELCA and speaks ill of it here.

And you regularly take jabs at the LCMS. "the faults we see in others are things we do not like about ourselves." Number 10 or so for those who keep track of such things....

Lou

Count your blessings. It could come out, perhaps appropriately, "LC Mess."
Don Kirchner

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DCharlton

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Re: "Lutheran Diversity" - and Other Myths
« Reply #275 on: August 19, 2015, 05:33:15 PM »
Lou, I believe the LC MS is a valid Lutheran church body in which the gospel is rightly preached in the sacraments are administered rightly.  If Craig, or anyone else here, can say that about the ELCA, I will withdraw my remark.
 I do believe, however, that there are people in the LC MS who have  some ideas that I find wrong, silly,  detrimental to evangelism and Christian fellowship, and occasionally reprehensible.

But that's not what you said.  You said, "Virtually everything he says is a slam at the ELCA, whether it is an insult is really a pointless discussion."

It would be an accurate characterization of your posting history to say, "Virtually everything Pastor Austin says is a slam at the LCMS, whether it is an insult is really pointless."     
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Charles Austin

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Re: "Lutheran Diversity" - and Other Myths
« Reply #276 on: August 19, 2015, 05:56:35 PM »
 You forget the times when some things I post happened to be a slam against my fellow members in the ELCA.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Now in Minneapolis. One must always ponder both the value and the dangers of poking the bear. Aroused and stimulated, the bear usually shows its true self. Or it might leap to an extreme version of itself. You never know with bears.

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: "Lutheran Diversity" - and Other Myths
« Reply #277 on: August 19, 2015, 06:13:11 PM »
Craig not only isn't in the ELCA, he dislikes the ELCA as much as anyone here. Notice his comments recently concerning Bishop Krister Stendahl, an ELCA pastor. Virtually everything he says is a slam at the ELCA, whether it is an insult is really a pointless discussion.
But we digress.

Bishop Stendahl was never an ELCA pastor.  It is possible the he was on the ministers roll of the LCA's New England Synod when he was teaching at Harvard, but since he was never called to a congregation and he was already a priest of the Church of Sweden (and I don't have any LCA Yearbooks to confirm yea or nay), it would not have been necessary or likely for him to be so.  He was elected Bishop of Stockholm in 1984 and his return to the US after the ELCA's formation was as a Bishop (retired) of the Church of Sweden.

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Steven W Bohler

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Re: "Lutheran Diversity" - and Other Myths
« Reply #278 on: August 19, 2015, 07:17:12 PM »
Aaronic benediction.  More tribal language. Can we be sure, or do we sometimes erroneously assume, that people today know to what we refer when we use such terms?
I can't speak for ELCA pewsitters, but pretty much everyone in the LCMS & WELS know who Aaron was and what the Blessing means...

Mr. Johnson,

Can you please show me where in this sentence LutherMan "assumed" anything about the ELCA or its members?  What he wrote was simply that he could not speak for the ELCA (and, I gather, by extension its members).  He made no comment about their understanding, or lack of understanding.  As I said before, LutherMan is able to speak from first-hand experience about the WELS and LCMS; he is not able to do so about the ELCA.  If anything, he was being careful NOT to speak ill of the ELCA...

You may be right about this particular case, SW, but in the main, our LutherMan does indeed speak ill of the ELCA and those in it on about as regular a basis as can be obtained.

Dave Benke

So I take it, Dr. Benke, that you are agreeing with me that LutherMan did not say anything insulting about the ELCA in his post.  Am I correct?

I am agreeing with you in the specific case of the one post, while stating what I have already stated, that LutherMan is insulting toward the ELCA and those connected to it in many, many other posts on this inter-Lutheran forum.

Dave Benke

Thank you.  What he may, or may not, have said or implied in other posts is irrelevant to the accusation that in THIS post he insulted the ELCA.  And you agree he did not.

DCharlton

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Re: "Lutheran Diversity" - and Other Myths
« Reply #279 on: August 19, 2015, 09:56:51 PM »
You forget the times when some things I post happened to be a slam against my fellow members in the ELCA.

Not true.  How could I forget? But we weren't talking about slams against individuals.  We were talking about church bodies.   
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George Erdner

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Re: "Lutheran Diversity" - and Other Myths
« Reply #280 on: August 19, 2015, 11:08:46 PM »
Well, Mr. Erdner, the Eighth Commandment enjoins us to defend our neighbor's reputation.  I would not call that a "damnfool stupid waste of time".

I consider long, drawn out, back and forth exchanges combined with lots and lots of piling on as going WAY beyond simply "defending our neighbor's reputation". There are times when it's best to just walk away. This thread is full of such times.

Steven W Bohler

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Re: "Lutheran Diversity" - and Other Myths
« Reply #281 on: August 19, 2015, 11:45:17 PM »
Well, Mr. Erdner, the Eighth Commandment enjoins us to defend our neighbor's reputation.  I would not call that a "damnfool stupid waste of time".

I consider long, drawn out, back and forth exchanges combined with lots and lots of piling on as going WAY beyond simply "defending our neighbor's reputation". There are times when it's best to just walk away. This thread is full of such times.

Well, you are certainly free to do so -- you do not have to read or post if a thread does not interest you.

Charles Austin

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Re: "Lutheran Diversity" - and Other Myths
« Reply #282 on: August 20, 2015, 02:33:55 AM »
Steven may be right, but I think Bishop Stendahl might have been on the LCA clergy roster. I apologize for the imprecision in my comment. But he was active among "us" and - as noted upstream - his son is an ELCA pastor.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Now in Minneapolis. One must always ponder both the value and the dangers of poking the bear. Aroused and stimulated, the bear usually shows its true self. Or it might leap to an extreme version of itself. You never know with bears.

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Re: "Lutheran Diversity" - and Other Myths
« Reply #283 on: August 20, 2015, 10:43:33 PM »
Steven may be right, but I think Bishop Stendahl might have been on the LCA clergy roster. I apologize for the imprecision in my comment. But he was active among "us" and - as noted upstream - his son is an ELCA pastor.

Bishop Stendahl was on the roster of the LCA while he lived in the United States and was the dean of Harvard Divinity School. I had the pleasure of hearing him give presentations twice while I was at Yale Divinity School. One was when he gave the Beecher Lectures at YDS on preaching. The first time was when he came to be part of a symposium on Jewish-Christian relations, and one evening he met with students, including nearly all of the Lutheran students at YDS, in the Commons Room for conversation on that topic in particular, though other questions came up during the evening. His election as Bishop in the Church of Sweden led to his resignation from the ministerium of pastors in the LCA. (A few years later he spoke out publicly on a matter of controversy in the LCA -- I remember that but not what the controversy was about -- and Bishop Crumley noted that Bishop Stendahl had no standing in the LCA and that his comments carried no authority in this church body any longer.)

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Re: "Lutheran Diversity" - and Other Myths
« Reply #284 on: August 21, 2015, 11:33:00 AM »
His election as Bishop in the Church of Sweden led to his resignation from the ministerium of pastors in the LCA. (A few years later he spoke out publicly on a matter of controversy in the LCA -- I remember that but not what the controversy was about -- and Bishop Crumley noted that Bishop Stendahl had no standing in the LCA and that his comments carried no authority in this church body any longer.)

Is there anything sadder than any institution, especially a church, rejecting the observations of a noted and well-respected expert on  the core issues the institution is dedicated to because the expert has no official "standing"? How can anyone respect any institution that is so petty?