Author Topic: Curious?  (Read 2496 times)

Charles Austin

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Re: Curious?
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2015, 05:47:13 AM »
Language changes. Language evolves. Words do not mean what they meant decades or centuries ago. A favorite example is Psalm 88:13. "But unto thee have I cried, O Lord; and in the morning shall my prayer prevent thee." In that century, "prevent" meant "come before" or "anticipate."
Hearing it in our time, we would wonder why we wanted to keep God from anything.
In literary context, words sometimes continue. "Don we now our gay apparel..."
And for those of us who would have our ideas and our words and our terminology and our literature understood by others, a heightened sense of this is helpful. Have we any idea what those outside rather narrow Lutheran circles "hear" when we talk about "Confessions," or being "confessional"? Or "orthodox"? (Capital letter or not?) "Unionism"? Now there's a word hardly understood outside LCMS circles, and likely to be considered to refer to something related to organizing workers.
Bad news, folks! However much we love our terminology and certain words, we are not in control of how others hear them or what usage and time does to them.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Former national staff Lutheran Church in America And the Lutheran world Federation, Geneva. Former journalist. Now retired and living in Minneapolis.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Curious?
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2015, 10:55:10 AM »
I am nobody's pastor here. 

"Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect..."  (1 Peter 3:15)


That verse is directed to all believers. Not just pastors. In addition, did anyone ask Pr. Austin about the hope that he has so that he should have answered it?
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

LutherMan

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Re: Curious?
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2015, 05:58:14 PM »
I am nobody's pastor here.  And I give Craig credit for being reasonably smart. That's why I think his initial posting doesn't make any sense and doesn't do him credit.  Or he is throwing chum in the water.
I had posted in the liturgical dance thread that the 'little flamer' was inappropriately dressed, but a poster whom I respect and admire asked me to remove the slur.  So I did.  I notice Pr. Wolf also had the same questions I did at one time, and she is also a poster I respect and admire... 
I was just using language I have grown accustomed to hearing.  Context, Pr. Austin...

Harvey_Mozolak

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Re: Curious?
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2015, 08:49:11 AM »
the medium of dance is only one of the arts...

you could ask about nudity and other things in portraying the incarnation or crucifixion...
you could ask in literature or poetry or drama or film or lyrics about the use of abusive, coarse or vulgar language in dialog in the mouth of those who opposed Christ or the church...

today folks like to site Luther's statements on diapers in the context of God at Bethlehem... don't think I ever heard that kind of quotation (while it existed) in sermons in the 1940's and 50s.

we do not speak or portray things in the Elizabethan manner any more and while we may have gone over another edge more readily, even the tone of sermons in terms of humor, irony, disharmony for the sake of making a point and the use of illustrations has changed among even the most conservative of preachers...

I was thinking of last Sunday's text which one preacher called Jesus' parabolic teaching of tying up a man to steal as a little I AM:  I am the good thief.  OK makes a point but I dare say that would probably not been written in a commentary or sermon in the 1940s or if touch on would have been couched in apology and some soothing context of verbiage. 
Harvey S. Mozolak
my poetry blog is listed below:

http://lineandletterlettuce.blogspot.com

Harvey_Mozolak

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Re: Curious?
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2015, 08:50:46 AM »
to repeat the obvious to our discussion:  dancing was once a sin almost in and of itself in some circles...
Harvey S. Mozolak
my poetry blog is listed below:

http://lineandletterlettuce.blogspot.com

LutherMan

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Re: Curious?
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2015, 09:44:32 AM »
the medium of dance is only one of the arts...

you could ask about nudity and other things in portraying the incarnation or crucifixion...
you could ask in literature or poetry or drama or film or lyrics about the use of abusive, coarse or vulgar language in dialog in the mouth of those who opposed Christ or the church...

today folks like to site Luther's statements on diapers in the context of God at Bethlehem... don't think I ever heard that kind of quotation (while it existed) in sermons in the 1940's and 50s.

we do not speak or portray things in the Elizabethan manner any more and while we may have gone over another edge more readily, even the tone of sermons in terms of humor, irony, disharmony for the sake of making a point and the use of illustrations has changed among even the most conservative of preachers...

I was thinking of last Sunday's text which one preacher called Jesus' parabolic teaching of tying up a man to steal as a little I AM:  I am the good thief.  OK makes a point but I dare say that would probably not been written in a commentary or sermon in the 1940s or if touch on would have been couched in apology and some soothing context of verbiage.
Was this meant for the liturgical dance thread?

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Curious?
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2015, 11:26:56 AM »
to repeat the obvious to our discussion:  dancing was once a sin almost in and of itself in some circles...


The autobiography of Fredrik A. Schiotz, the first president of TALC (1960-1970), called One Man's Story, contains his conversion about dancing when he served a congregation in Chicago. He was against dancing because, of course, dancing led to unwanted pregnancies and births. However, a study was done of unwed mothers in the Chicago area. There were more of them from the denominations that forbid dancing, than from those, like the Methodist, who allowed and even promoted dancing. Apparently, while Methodist were dancing, Lutherans were doing something else. He determined that the reasoning he used to forbid dancing was not based in reality.
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Harvey_Mozolak

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Re: Curious?
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2015, 11:49:18 AM »

Was this meant for the liturgical dance thread?


sure, dance is not the only suspect artistic medium....  even if painters wear loose fitting smocks and poets hide behind meters. 
Harvey S. Mozolak
my poetry blog is listed below:

http://lineandletterlettuce.blogspot.com

Charles Austin

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Re: Curious?
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2015, 04:33:47 PM »
Harvey Mozolak was a fine poet.
Fans loved every verse that he wro-et.
But when he wrote Mondays
He wore only undies,
Hoping that no one would know it.

He weathered the storm that ensued.
'Cause he was a really cool dude.
But what if they knew,
And imagined the view?
For on Tuesdays he wrote in the nude.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Former national staff Lutheran Church in America And the Lutheran world Federation, Geneva. Former journalist. Now retired and living in Minneapolis.

Steverem

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Re: Curious?
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2015, 04:39:54 PM »
Harvey Mozolak was a fine poet.
Fans loved every verse that he wro-et.
But when he wrote Mondays
He wore only undies,
Hoping that no one would know it.

He weathered the storm that ensued.
'Cause he was a really cool dude.
But what if they knew,
And imagined the view?
For on Tuesdays he wrote in the nude.

Counting my blessings that Pastor Mozolak does his writing (in whatever state of dress he chooses) in North Carolina, and not, say, Nantucket.