Author Topic: Kenyan Newspaper Article on Corruption in ELCK  (Read 12235 times)

Charles Austin

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Re: Kenyan Newspaper Article on Corruption in ELCK
« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2015, 09:10:51 AM »
 Do any of you care that his pastors, or apparently a significant number of them, have been protesting his leadership for the last five years?  They have written to the Missouri Synod asking about some financial matters, and they have objected  because they contend he ignores proper procedures. And I believe he locked a number them out of the recent synod convention. All this information, including their letters, is online.
 Now we await the declaration from Pastor Kirchner that all this is gossip.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, New York and New Jersey. LCA/LWF staff. Former journalist. Now retired in Minneapolis. My only Thanksgiving cooking chore: providing fresh ground, fair trade, bird friendly coffee.

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Kenyan Newspaper Article on Corruption in ELCK
« Reply #46 on: May 16, 2015, 09:53:11 AM »
Ah, another dedicated reader of Rossow on BJS. Refreshing to see you come out of the closet, Rev Austin.   ;)
Don Kirchner

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Eileen Smith

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Re: Kenyan Newspaper Article on Corruption in ELCK
« Reply #47 on: May 16, 2015, 09:54:59 AM »
A few years ago, Bishop Obare fell ill while here in St. Louis. I remember going with Deaconess Bowers to pray with him at the hospital. It was the first and only time I've personally interacted with him, and he struck me as a man both humble and gracious, despite his illness. I have watched this thread with sadness. I have no way of knowing the veracity of any of the charges brought against the bishop and his administration. I do know who is the Accuser of the Brethren and how he delights to get us to join him in that.  If we are not ignorant of the enemy's devises, then let us fervently pray for the Church of the Augsburg Confession in Kenya that Satan's schemes be thwarted and that through this difficult and trying situation God's name would be hallowed, his kingdom come, his good and gracious will be done. "Give Your Church, Lord, to see Days of peace and unity. O Lord, have mercy!"

Not being familiar at all with the subjects matter, I have read much of this thread with sadness.  While not in a position to comment on the subject itself, one word needs to be said.  Apparently there is one (Accuser of the Brethren?) who tends to stir things up and, perhaps, has leveled this charge.  However, one of our most thoughtful and thought-filled posters has brought this matter to the attention of the Forum, one who I hardly think would engage in gossip or slander.   One may not always agree with Scott Yakimow but I don't think anyone here would deny the integrity of his posts --- and the man himself.   

Weedon

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Re: Kenyan Newspaper Article on Corruption in ELCK
« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2015, 09:55:59 AM »
Eileen, absolutely. My words were not intended as a slam at Scott.

Charles Austin

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Re: Kenyan Newspaper Article on Corruption in ELCK
« Reply #49 on: May 16, 2015, 10:00:17 AM »
 Much of what Rossow writes is pompous and foolish. But he did provide some links to actual documents. Those are interesting.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, New York and New Jersey. LCA/LWF staff. Former journalist. Now retired in Minneapolis. My only Thanksgiving cooking chore: providing fresh ground, fair trade, bird friendly coffee.

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Kenyan Newspaper Article on Corruption in ELCK
« Reply #50 on: May 16, 2015, 10:03:32 AM »
Apparently there is one (Accuser of the Brethren?) who tends to stir things up and, perhaps, has leveled this charge.

I have stated that Scott, while continually admitting that he has no proof of malfeasance, is spreading rumors, i.e., gossip. Nothing more, other than not joining in accusing a brother in Christ whom I love, based on rumors and anonymous accusations.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 10:07:18 AM by Pr. Don Kirchner »
Don Kirchner

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LutherMan

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Re: Kenyan Newspaper Article on Corruption in ELCK
« Reply #51 on: May 16, 2015, 10:20:45 AM »
Fr. W is right, we need to keep all in the ELCK in prayer.  Satan loves nothing more than to cause divisions between the Brethren...   

Charles Austin

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Re: Kenyan Newspaper Article on Corruption in ELCK
« Reply #52 on: May 16, 2015, 10:39:00 AM »
But the divisions may not be allowed to stand. It is perfectly clear that the bishop has caused divisions in his church and in the African Lutheran churches and in the fellowship of the LWF. Prayer is only one of the things needed.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, New York and New Jersey. LCA/LWF staff. Former journalist. Now retired in Minneapolis. My only Thanksgiving cooking chore: providing fresh ground, fair trade, bird friendly coffee.

Weedon

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Re: Kenyan Newspaper Article on Corruption in ELCK
« Reply #53 on: May 16, 2015, 10:44:35 AM »
Pastor Austin,

If you are referring to the egregious manner in which a change in the Church's ancient teaching was forced upon the African churches by "the enlightened Westerners," then it was not Bishop Obare who caused any division. It was those who insisted that all others be as "enlightened" as they and accept a change that others were quite convinced violated Scripture. Echoes of the discussion swirling around the Roman Church's Synod on family...

Charles Austin

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Re: Kenyan Newspaper Article on Corruption in ELCK
« Reply #54 on: May 16, 2015, 10:51:22 AM »
Even if you are correct. pastor Weedon, and i am not sure you are, do you endorse the bishop's interference in the life of the Church of Sweden, where he participated in illicit ordinations? It is as if an ELCA bishop would go into an LCMS district and, at the invitation of dissidents, ordain a woman for them. That is surely sowing division, is it not?
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, New York and New Jersey. LCA/LWF staff. Former journalist. Now retired in Minneapolis. My only Thanksgiving cooking chore: providing fresh ground, fair trade, bird friendly coffee.

Weedon

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Re: Kenyan Newspaper Article on Corruption in ELCK
« Reply #55 on: May 16, 2015, 10:57:34 AM »
Pastor Austin, we cannot forget that Sweden was Kenya's mother church. A people always feels a debt of gratitude toward that people from which the Gospel first rang out in their land. What happens, though, when the place from which it came begins to change the Gospel that was once joyously preached? What happens when those who had heard and received that Gospel with joy in the new land, hear the cry of those in the homeland for help in maintaining churches that still hold to the old faith? This is the situation into whe bishop stepped, at least as I understand the situation. And granted, I'm looking at it from afar and only through secondary and tertiary sources.

Charles Austin

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Re: Kenyan Newspaper Article on Corruption in ELCK
« Reply #56 on: May 16, 2015, 11:09:54 AM »
 I'm sorry, Pastor Weedon, but that is simply justifying hogwash.  If something is wrong in your "mother church," you simply don't barge in,  override its discipline, and act contrary to validly elected leadership.  All the pious weepiness that you could lay on it does not justify that.
The Swedish church "said we do not approve those people for ordination, do not ordain them."  His fellow Lutherans in Africa asked him not to do that. But he went ahead and did it.
 If you approve of that action, you are less of a churchmen than I thought.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, New York and New Jersey. LCA/LWF staff. Former journalist. Now retired in Minneapolis. My only Thanksgiving cooking chore: providing fresh ground, fair trade, bird friendly coffee.

scott8

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Re: Kenyan Newspaper Article on Corruption in ELCK
« Reply #57 on: May 16, 2015, 11:12:08 AM »
I would like to reiterate what I said in a previous post regarding "proof."  There, I set a very high bar as to what would constitute "proof" -- being able access personal bank accounts and see where Bp. Obare and others received money, in what amounts, and at what time.  That one will not get without a court order.

Given that high bar, I said there was no "proof" as there is no "smoking gun" which the bank accounts would be.

However, there is an extremely strong case to be made without such smoking-gun "proof," and this extends to documents that connect the folks involved to the construction company that built the new building (among other things the documents show, such as the drive to change the constitution to make the arch-bishop arch-bishop for life), formal documents from groups of pastors who surely are not anonymous, testimony from those who have worked with the ELCK that there began to be problems, the former regional director's testimony regarding his wife whose job it was to oversee funding and who had documentation of "hundreds of thousands of dollars spent in East Africa for which there is no tangible result, at least as it pertains to the East Africa churches proper," and repeated protests by Kenyan pastors.  This is a very strong circumstantial case based both upon documents and testimony -- though it lacks the smoking-gun "proof" of personal bank accounts which can only be opened by the state.

Again, I take no joy in raising these issues, but now that it has reached the Kenyan papers, I feel an obligation based upon my history to recommend to folks not to give money to the ELCK head office at this point in time, and to provide warrants for why I would make such a strong and serious recommendation.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 12:00:34 PM by Scott Yakimow »

mariemeyer

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Re: Kenyan Newspaper Article on Corruption in ELCK
« Reply #58 on: May 16, 2015, 12:18:36 PM »
Christians are indeed accountable for how they speak of Bishops, pastors and their brothers/sisters in Christ. So also,  Bishops and those in high places are accountable to God for how they use  resources given to care for the "little" people God entrusts to their care.  The higher the office, the greater the accountability.  The office dare not be allowed to excuse or mask inappropriate use of "the widow's mite."

LCMS men and women in the New England District contributed significant funds for the church Kenya.  Attempts to receive an account for how the funds were used were met with silence. Lack of accountability on the part of the ELCK leadership to donors was a concern to donors. 

Neither the office the Rev. Walter Obare holds as Bishop nor his recognition as a Confessional Church leader by the LCMS ought take priority over concern for people he was called to serve. Since Scott Yakimow served in Africa and has knowledge of problems in churches there, I consider his perspective valid. 

Marie Meyer   

Dave Likeness

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Re: Kenyan Newspaper Article on Corruption in ELCK
« Reply #59 on: May 16, 2015, 12:39:43 PM »
You can sense the pain and pathos in the sentences
that Scott Yakimow has written on this thread. His
years in Africa lend credibility to his voice.  May the
current LCMS President Harrison find answers for
the many LCMS people who have contributed money
to Kenya in the recent past.  Personally, I have
contributed a sizable sum to the Orphanage in Kenya.