Author Topic: The Battle Lines are Drawn  (Read 14346 times)

JMOtterman

  • Guest
Re: The Battle Lines are Drawn
« Reply #90 on: July 25, 2007, 02:42:25 PM »
To you,
A Revised Hymnary taken from the book The Collect'd Writings of St. Hereticus edited by Robert McAfee Brown

I'm working on a new hymnal.  I'm going to keep the old tunes (grand old tunes, all of them) and simply supply new words for people who feel uncomfortable or hypocritical singing the old words.  The words in my hymnal will reflect what people are actually thinking when they raise their voices on a Sunday morning.

The following offerings, then, are at least descriptively true.  I won't go into any detailed defense of their literary merit.

Backward, Christian Soldiers

Like a fleeing army
Moves the Church of God;
Brother treads on brother
Grinds him in the sod.
We are not united,
Lots of bodies we:
One lacks faith, another hope,
And all lack charity.

Chorus:
Backward, Christian Soldiers,
Waging fruitless wars,
Breaking out in schisms
That our God deplores.

Some of the hymns need to have alternate versions to be used as local circumstances dictate:

Faith of Our Fathers, Wholly Faith

1. Liberal Version

Faith of our fathers, once so great,
We must revise or be out of date,
We must distinguish kerygma from myth,
Or they won't be worth bothering with.

Chorus:
Faith of our fathers we accept
(Save for the parts that we reject).

2. Orthodox Version

Faith of our fathers, keep it intact!
They wrote it down precisely exact.
Change no expression, no phrases delete,
Their propositions cannot be beat.

Chorus:
Faith of our fathers, keep it pure,
Relevance is a sinful lure.

3. American Version

Faith of our founding fathers! We
Now can express with clarity:
"God's on our side, he'll hear every plea
If we'll expand our economy".

Chorus:
Faith of our founding fathers! There
Is nothing quite like laissez-faire

SCPO

  • Guest
Re: The Battle Lines are Drawn
« Reply #91 on: July 25, 2007, 02:48:40 PM »

Hmmph! You made me look it up. For some reason I've always thought it was "persnickerty," but you're right.
Of course, you misspelled misspelled, Senior Senior.


     Oops!! 

Gladfelteri

  • Guest
Re: The Battle Lines are Drawn
« Reply #92 on: July 25, 2007, 02:53:38 PM »
Is it correct to presume that SCPO is a Navy or Coast Guard rank?   :)

SCPO

  • Guest
Re: The Battle Lines are Drawn
« Reply #93 on: July 25, 2007, 03:01:45 PM »
Is it correct to presume that SCPO is a Navy or Coast Guard rank?   :)

     Yes, your presumption is correct.   In my case, it is U.S. Navy, (Ret). 

Regards,

Senior

pilgrimpriest

  • Guest
Re: The Battle Lines are Drawn
« Reply #94 on: July 25, 2007, 03:09:27 PM »
To you,
A Revised Hymnary taken from the book The Collect'd Writings of St. Hereticus edited by Robert McAfee Brown

I'm working on a new hymnal.  I'm going to keep the old tunes (grand old tunes, all of them) and simply supply new words for people who feel uncomfortable or hypocritical singing the old words.  The words in my hymnal will reflect what people are actually thinking when they raise their voices on a Sunday morning.

The following offerings, then, are at least descriptively true.  I won't go into any detailed defense of their literary merit.

Backward, Christian Soldiers

Like a fleeing army
Moves the Church of God;
Brother treads on brother
Grinds him in the sod.
We are not united,
Lots of bodies we:
One lacks faith, another hope,
And all lack charity.

Chorus:
Backward, Christian Soldiers,
Waging fruitless wars,
Breaking out in schisms
That our God deplores.

Some of the hymns need to have alternate versions to be used as local circumstances dictate:

Faith of Our Fathers, Wholly Faith

1. Liberal Version

Faith of our fathers, once so great,
We must revise or be out of date,
We must distinguish kerygma from myth,
Or they won't be worth bothering with.

Chorus:
Faith of our fathers we accept
(Save for the parts that we reject).

2. Orthodox Version

Faith of our fathers, keep it intact!
They wrote it down precisely exact.
Change no expression, no phrases delete,
Their propositions cannot be beat.

Chorus:
Faith of our fathers, keep it pure,
Relevance is a sinful lure.

3. American Version

Faith of our founding fathers! We
Now can express with clarity:
"God's on our side, he'll hear every plea
If we'll expand our economy".

Chorus:
Faith of our founding fathers! There
Is nothing quite like laissez-faire

Odd coincidence, I just posted this on Touchstone's website last night on the egregious RC hymnal Glory and Praise:

I was so inspired in my perusal of these aforementioned "cutting edge" hymnals that I, just now, wrote two new hymns. Please excuse the offensive terms used in the original hymns' titles...

1. "Onward, faith-based people!"
(Sung to the tune of "Onward, Christian [sic] Soldiers [sic]!"

Onward, faith-based people!
Moving toward "relevancy,"
With theological substance
re-imagin'd expertly.

AND,

2. Our Community's Stated Purpose"
(Sung to the tune of "The Church's [sic] One [sic] Foundation [sic]")

Our community's stated purpose
Is gracious mass-appeal,
It's in our Mission Statement
Reflecting how we feel:
No "lifestyle choice" appalls us,
C'mon, you're welcome here!
Throw out that moral compass,
There's no one here to steer.

Cheers!
Fr. Bob

EENGELBRECHT

  • Guest
Re: The Battle Lines are Drawn
« Reply #95 on: July 25, 2007, 03:55:14 PM »
If it is "iron sharpening iron" then great.  But if the words penetrate the heart, mind, soul, and strength and rob a person of their identity in Christ, so that one might stumble, or fall away, or walk away from the faith then yes "battle" talk and "barbs" are sin, and confession of sin is indeed warranted. 

Thanks you for addressing my "sin question." I'm really curious to know how others think about this since it seems to stand behind so much dialogue.

Do you mean that it's sin if the hearer/reader receives the words as offense whether or not the speaker/writer intended that?

In Christ,
EE

hansen

  • Guest
Re: The Battle Lines are Drawn
« Reply #96 on: July 25, 2007, 04:08:27 PM »
  Don, as an outside lurker who enjoys and gains knowledge from your posts, may I suggest that you take the esteemed moderators suggestion and look for ways to have a little fun now and then.   How about changing your screen name to something along the lines of "Persnickity Poster".   Then think of all the contortions that Pastor Austen would probably go through trying to figure out how to inform an anonymous poster that he misspelled persnickety.

Thanks -- that's a good one.  Or how about this:  I could sign on using the name "Janielou13b", and then we can watch to see how Pr. Austen reacts to it.  Based on past experience, it seems that particular screen name is immune from his extreme objection to anonymous posters.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2007, 04:50:52 PM by Don Hansen »

JMOtterman

  • Guest
Re: The Battle Lines are Drawn
« Reply #97 on: July 25, 2007, 04:44:07 PM »
If it is "iron sharpening iron" then great.  But if the words penetrate the heart, mind, soul, and strength and rob a person of their identity in Christ, so that one might stumble, or fall away, or walk away from the faith then yes "battle" talk and "barbs" are sin, and confession of sin is indeed warranted. 

Thanks you for addressing my "sin question." I'm really curious to know how others think about this since it seems to stand behind so much dialogue.

Do you mean that it's sin if the hearer/reader receives the words as offense whether or not the speaker/writer intended that?

In Christ,
EE

Yes.


EENGELBRECHT

  • Guest
Re: The Battle Lines are Drawn
« Reply #98 on: July 25, 2007, 05:02:12 PM »
If it is "iron sharpening iron" then great.  But if the words penetrate the heart, mind, soul, and strength and rob a person of their identity in Christ, so that one might stumble, or fall away, or walk away from the faith then yes "battle" talk and "barbs" are sin, and confession of sin is indeed warranted. 

Thanks you for addressing my "sin question." I'm really curious to know how others think about this since it seems to stand behind so much dialogue.

Do you mean that it's sin if the hearer/reader receives the words as offense whether or not the speaker/writer intended that?

In Christ,
EE

Yes.

So if I intended to hurt/offend someone with my words but they didn't take offense, then I would not have sinned?

JMOtterman

  • Guest
Re: The Battle Lines are Drawn
« Reply #99 on: July 25, 2007, 05:20:41 PM »
If it is "iron sharpening iron" then great.  But if the words penetrate the heart, mind, soul, and strength and rob a person of their identity in Christ, so that one might stumble, or fall away, or walk away from the faith then yes "battle" talk and "barbs" are sin, and confession of sin is indeed warranted. 

Thanks you for addressing my "sin question." I'm really curious to know how others think about this since it seems to stand behind so much dialogue.

Do you mean that it's sin if the hearer/reader receives the words as offense whether or not the speaker/writer intended that?

In Christ,
EE

Yes.

So if I intended to hurt/offend someone with my words but they didn't take offense, then I would not have sinned?

No. You still did sin, the sin was against yourself and against God because your intent was to slander the other breaking the 8th commandment even if they did not take offense.

PJ

MMH

  • Guest
Back to the battle lines
« Reply #100 on: July 25, 2007, 05:54:33 PM »
Virtue on Line has posted an article from the Chicago Sun Times

http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=6396

The germane bits:

The Lutheran pastor soon to be bishop of the Metropolitan Chicago Synod wants his denomination to lift a celibacy requirement for gay and lesbian clergy.

"That's where I think the church is going," Bishop-elect Wayne Miller of Aurora said. "That's where I think it needs to go."

He's hoping the change will come next month in Chicago, where the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America is conducting its churchwide assembly. Nearly a third of the denomination's 65 synods are asking for a policy shift in clergy standards.



More than 1,000 voting church members are expected at the Aug. 6-11 assembly at Navy Pier.

Miller, 57, will begin his six-year term as bishop on Sept. 1. He'll be formally installed Sept. 9 at the downtown Episcopal cathedral because it can accommodate the sizable turnout expected.

If the rules for gay clergy aren't relaxed, Miller acknowledges that he'll feel tension between his personal beliefs and his vows as bishop to uphold the policies of the church.

"That is the dilemma of a bishop at this particular moment in history," he said.


Indeed

Matt

janielou13

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Re: The Battle Lines are Drawn
« Reply #101 on: July 25, 2007, 06:21:25 PM »
Don,,,,,, I'll let you in on a little secret - not don't tell anybody - janielou13 is actually Charles Austin b

hansen

  • Guest
Re: The Battle Lines are Drawn
« Reply #102 on: July 25, 2007, 06:23:56 PM »
Don,,,,,, I'll let you in on a little secret - not don't tell anybody - janielou13 is actually Charles Austin b

Nice try.  You're close, but no Cohiba.  8)
« Last Edit: July 25, 2007, 06:30:42 PM by Don Hansen »

EENGELBRECHT

  • Guest
Re: The Battle Lines are Drawn
« Reply #103 on: July 25, 2007, 07:24:47 PM »
No. You still did sin, the sin was against yourself and against God because your intent was to slander the other breaking the 8th commandment even if they did not take offense.

Okay. When offense is intended or taken, sin is involved.

In Christ,
EE

MMH

  • Guest
Re: The Battle Lines are Drawn
« Reply #104 on: July 25, 2007, 08:41:42 PM »
No. You still did sin, the sin was against yourself and against God because your intent was to slander the other breaking the 8th commandment even if they did not take offense.

Okay. When offense is intended or taken, sin is involved.

I would say that when offense is intended, sin is involved, but necessarily when it is taken.  I am guessing that many people, when they are confronted in a pastoral manner about their sinful behavior might actually take offense at being called to task.  So does a pastor a priori sin in pointing out a person's sin?