Author Topic: Wonkette "Outs" Herself as a Christian  (Read 2842 times)

Steverem

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Wonkette "Outs" Herself as a Christian
« on: March 02, 2015, 02:54:07 PM »
Not really a propos to anything, but I found this reflection by the notorious Beltway blogger "Wonkette" to be fascinating.  A few quibbles, to be sure, but much to ponder and take to heart as well.

Rod Dreher, I think, has a very nice reflection on the original column here.  Interested if anyone else here has a take on her comments.

Charles Austin

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Re: Wonkette "Outs" Herself as a Christian
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2015, 03:36:29 PM »
So a popular, smart, snarky, liberal  who is a good writer is a Christian. So she hopes that others will get the same comfort and joy from following Jesus she does? Why would I not like that?
And why am I not the least bit surprised that she or people like her exist?
Retired ELCA Pastor. Former national staff Lutheran Church in America And the Lutheran world Federation, Geneva. Former journalist. Now retired and living in Minneapolis.

Steverem

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Re: Wonkette "Outs" Herself as a Christian
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2015, 03:43:45 PM »
Not sure why the snark, pastor.  No one suggested you should not like that, nor did anyone else express surprise that people like her exist.  I shared because I thought she made good points, and that others here might be edified by what she had to say.  I was.

Fletch

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Re: Wonkette "Outs" Herself as a Christian
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2015, 04:11:05 PM »
Not really a propos to anything, but I found this reflection by the notorious Beltway blogger "Wonkette" to be fascinating.  A few quibbles, to be sure, but much to ponder and take to heart as well.

Rod Dreher, I think, has a very nice reflection on the original column here.  Interested if anyone else here has a take on her comments.

I read both links.  Thanks for posting.  The part of Wonkette's article that seemed consistent with the LCMS doctrine I have been taught:

"Yet any rumbling desire to turn my religion into something fashionably rebellious is an artifact of ego. It’s an attempt to make this story about me, someone who did something and then changed, ta-da—cue workout montage and triumphant final scene. On some level, I still want credit for the spiritual makeover—I was lost, but now am found, and I am the one that found me.

But if I understand God’s grace correctly, the miracle of redemption is that I was found all along. God does not see charming dissonance in being a liberal who follows Christ; He’s not looking for that New York Times Style section trend story. I do not get to think of myself as “edgy” for being just another believer. There is nothing to reconcile.

One of the most painful and reoccurring stumbling blocks in my journey is my inability to accept that I am completely whole and loved by God without doing anything. That’s accompanied by a corresponding truth: There is nothing so great I can do to make God love me more."


... Fletch

Tim Schenks

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Re: Wonkette "Outs" Herself as a Christian
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2015, 02:34:19 AM »
It appeared to me that's she's the spiritual type who doesn't go to church and doesn't know the contents of the Bible, while professing to be a Christian.

If you don't go to church and receive the Means of Grace ("That we receive this faith, God established the Office of Holy Ministry"), is it possible to remain a Christian?  I mean "Where one is gathered..." doesn't have quite the right sound to me.

Charles Austin

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Re: Wonkette "Outs" Herself as a Christian
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2015, 05:36:20 AM »
There are, Tim Schenks, Christians; and then there are Christians.
I think the most mischievous question in all of "theology" is: Can you be a Christian if.... (and add your own finish to that sentence).
I have no doubt as a Lutheran that some of the lines we draw around being "Christian" - creeds, confessions, ethics, sacraments, worship, church, etc. etc. etc. etc. - are "correct," that is, they do define "Christian." But as I age and as I experience things, I am more convinced that although the lines we draw may be "correct," there are other lines that may also be correct. Theology, like life, is messy.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Former national staff Lutheran Church in America And the Lutheran world Federation, Geneva. Former journalist. Now retired and living in Minneapolis.

Terry W Culler

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Re: Wonkette "Outs" Herself as a Christian
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2015, 06:32:48 AM »
I believe it is theoretically possible to be a lone ranger Christian.  But I have my doubts that it is very likely to be sustained over a long period of time.  It is God's desire that we not cease to meet together.  Why would that be?  Well, for the mutual conversation and consolation of the saints.  Christianity is not a "spiritual but not religious" kind of faith in which we get to make up stuff that seems right by us.
Trying to be retired but failing

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Wonkette "Outs" Herself as a Christian
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2015, 08:14:56 AM »
.
I think the most mischievous question in all of "theology" is: Can you be a Christian if.... (and add your own finish to that sentence).

A more mischievous question is, "What are the minimum requirements to be a Christian?"
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it’s not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

dkeener

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Re: Wonkette "Outs" Herself as a Christian
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2015, 08:40:25 AM »
Isn't claiming to have a warm and wonderful relationship with Jesus, but not the church, kind of like telling someone, "I want to be your best friend but I just can't stand your wife"?

Matt Hummel

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Re: Wonkette "Outs" Herself as a Christian
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2015, 08:58:11 AM »
Isn't claiming to have a warm and wonderful relationship with Jesus, but not the church, kind of like telling someone, "I want to be your best friend but I just can't stand your wife"?

Fr. Benedict has said, "people say, 'Jesus yes, the Church, no.' What they mean is 'Jesus yes, the Christ no.'"
Matt Hummel


“The chief purpose of life, for any of us, is to increase according to our capacity our knowledge of God by all means we have, and to be moved by it to praise and thanks.”

― J.R.R. Tolkien

Charles Austin

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Re: Wonkette "Outs" Herself as a Christian
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2015, 09:18:37 AM »
Dkeener writes:
Isn't claiming to have a warm and wonderful relationship with Jesus, but not the church, kind of like telling someone, "I want to be your best friend but I just can't stand your wife"?

I suggest:
In real life, I think this happens.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Former national staff Lutheran Church in America And the Lutheran world Federation, Geneva. Former journalist. Now retired and living in Minneapolis.

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Wonkette "Outs" Herself as a Christian
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2015, 09:27:28 AM »
Dkeener writes:
Isn't claiming to have a warm and wonderful relationship with Jesus, but not the church, kind of like telling someone, "I want to be your best friend but I just can't stand your wife"?

I suggest:
In real life, I think this happens.

Yes, due to sin. Which is why there are those who suggest "Jesus yes, church no." As Pr. Culler  states, "Christianity is not a 'spiritual but not religious' kind of faith in which we get to make up stuff that seems right by us."
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it’s not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

Dan Fienen

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Re: Wonkette "Outs" Herself as a Christian
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2015, 09:39:54 AM »
For all of us, so long as we are on our pilgrimage through this life we are saint and sinner.  Especially as a new Christian, Wonkette doesn't have everything correct about her Christian life, no surprise all of us are growing in faith, wisdom, and knowledge.  Let's cut her a little slack, not to affirm her where she is in error, but to recognize her youth in the faith and that she has a ways to go.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

Mark Brown

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Re: Wonkette "Outs" Herself as a Christian
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2015, 11:24:23 AM »
What is most touching about that piece is her simple expression toward the end of law and gospel which she describes in hidden God and revealed God language.

What she hasn't connected yet is that to avoid eventually making that revelation in her image, she intuits the problem of "edgy lifestyle Christianity", but to consistently avoid that she hasn't connected that the revelation of a real Jesus, and a real grace, takes place consistently in a real place - word and sacrament in the church.

Although my guess is that she's got a stronger connection than she lets on in that article.  She sounds very much under the influence of Tim Keller or someone like that.

Steverem

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Re: Wonkette "Outs" Herself as a Christian
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2015, 11:44:24 AM »

She sounds very much under the influence of Tim Keller or someone like that.


One can only hope.  There are worse things and people of which to be influenced ...