Author Topic: Is this the ELCA mainstream today?  (Read 10865 times)

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Is this the ELCA mainstream today?
« Reply #120 on: July 02, 2007, 01:22:55 PM »
As I've thought about the subject of this discussion, "Is this the ELCA mainstream today?" it can't lead to an answer. The ELCA is composed of different streams of thought. There are conservatives and liberals within the ELCA. There is Lutherans Concerned and WordAlone. We have congregations that follow and enjoy nearly all the pomp and ceremony of a Roman Catholic high mass, and other congregations whose liturgies are closer to what one finds in a Baptist tradition. We have congregations who are very sacramental, celebrating holy communion at every major worship service -- and even in small group settings, e.g., after council meetings. Other congregations believe that communion once a month is more than enough. We have people in our pews who believe that the organ is the only proper instrument to accompany worship services, and will drive miles, going past other congregations to worship with a good organ. We have other people in our pews who can't stand the organ and avoid any service with "traditional" in the title.

Each of our ancient predecessor bodies: the Germans, Noregeians, Swedes, Danes, Icelanders, Slovaks brought different streams into our mix. More recently streams from Latino, Asian, and African Lutherans have brought in other streams.

In my mind, what unites these streams together is the ELCA's constitutional confession of faith.
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

janielou13

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Re: Is this the ELCA mainstream today?
« Reply #121 on: July 02, 2007, 05:07:12 PM »
Pastor Hatcher,
How the emotional damage happens in utero is trauma, external or internal, to the developing neural tissue of the unborn child,,,,,, from day one or anytime all the way to term.  Close line and/or inbreeding, drugs and alcohol, physical battery external to the womb, malnutrition and usually a combination of those.
T'aint pretty and more common than one wants to think about.  We have a long term foster child out 'there' somewhere, now in the thirties, that suffered all of the above.

ptmccain

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Re: Is this the ELCA mainstream today?
« Reply #122 on: July 02, 2007, 05:26:11 PM »
I might be wrong, but I suspect Pr. Austin was not making a medical comment when referring to "emotional damage."

J, I'm very sorr to hear about your foster child, but would you have chosen to end his life in the womb?

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Is this the ELCA mainstream today?
« Reply #123 on: July 02, 2007, 08:05:22 PM »
The leap to infanticide is in no way ridiculous-- it is already happening in Europe regarding seriously disabled newborns, and the logic is already in place; it is just time to get used to the idea that is still needed.s on this topic; maybe we could resurrect one of them and take this discussion over there.

Actually, it has been happening in the United States for years, including hospitals related to Christian Churches. Children born are refused even the most basic of medical care until they die.

Christe eleison, Steven+
The Rev. Steven Paul Tibbetts, STS
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MMH

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Re: Is this the ELCA mainstream today?
« Reply #124 on: July 03, 2007, 02:26:36 PM »
Pastor McCain writes:
Charles, it may cause you discomfort, but the consistent and logical conclusion for those who believe a woman has the right to end the life of her unborn child is that she also should have the right to end the life of her newborn child.

I comment:
Logical to you, perhaps. But I challenge you to show me where it seems "logical" to other people seriously involved in the discussion about abortion.

Are folks like Peter Singer and those who think like him ignorant wing-nuts whom we can simply write off? 

Matt Hummel+

janielou13

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Re: Is this the ELCA mainstream today?
« Reply #125 on: July 03, 2007, 03:26:48 PM »
Pastor McCain remarks,  "I might be wrong, but I suspect Pr. Austin was not making a medical comment when referring to "emotional damage.""

Will let Pastor Austin speak for himself.

"J, I'm very sorr to hear about your foster child, but would you have chosen to end his life in the womb?"

Will let the latter part of that pass,,, tad impertinent/insensitive don't you think ?  Now as to the parential breeding units that put the kid, and siblings, in that state, the thought does cross ones mind.  The less said about the careing professionals in 'Compassion, Inc" the better as well.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Is this the ELCA mainstream today?
« Reply #126 on: July 03, 2007, 06:11:03 PM »
Pastor McCain remarks, "I might be wrong, but I suspect Pr. Austin was not making a medical comment when referring to "emotional damage.""

Will let Pastor Austin speak for himself.

"J, I'm very sorr to hear about your foster child, but would you have chosen to end his life in the womb?"

Will let the latter part of that pass,,, tad impertinent/insensitive don't you think ? Now as to the parential breeding units that put the kid, and siblings, in that state, the thought does cross ones mind. The less said about the careing professionals in 'Compassion, Inc" the better as well.
Parental breeding units? How about wretched sinners? At least we Christians ought to be able to talk about people as people and not as sociological data. But thank you, sincerely, for being a foster-family for some poor soul out there, who, whether he likes it or not, knows something about the grace and mercy of God from having been part of your family. I would almost bet my life that when the last page is written and the world ends it will turn out that somehow Creation was a better place for your foster-son having been part of it.

MMH

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Re: Is this the ELCA mainstream today?
« Reply #127 on: July 03, 2007, 08:18:43 PM »
Are folks like Peter Singer and those who think like him ignorant wing-nuts whom we can simply write off? 

I'm waiting....