Author Topic: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars  (Read 7008 times)

Harvey_Mozolak

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Re: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars
« Reply #60 on: April 25, 2014, 03:56:21 PM »
Right on.  Harvey Mozolak

[quote author=FrPeters link=topic=5437.msg335193#msg335193 date=1398454014

I preached on the Eucharist so often and pointed to an empty altar so often that in a couple of months people were saying that if I pointed to the altar and there was nothing on it one more time, they would go crazy.  It was time for the weekly Eucharist.
[/quote]
Harvey S. Mozolak
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Dave Benke

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Re: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars
« Reply #61 on: April 25, 2014, 04:11:42 PM »
I think that's not too hard to surmise, Bishop. The norm for the time when the practice began was probably once a month communion (or less). So most Sundays, the missal stand stood in the middle bearing the Altar Book. I'd be willing to wager that what was usual (for the p. 5 or 32 Sundays) became thought of as simply the norm even for a p. 15 Sunday. I remember for some time after we had gone to the weekly Eucharist, the elders persisted in moving the missal stand to the center of the Altar after the Divine Service as they assisted with cleaning up afterwards.

Interesting -
a) they went back to the old habit
b) they were elders, not the altar guild.  My deacons and elders can and do "clean up," but the altar guild and acolytes are the major movers and cleaners.
c) we had the double benediction deal at my home congregation in Milwaukee - p. 5 benediction followed by shortish p. 15 and subsequent second benediction for those who stayed.  I'm trying to remember if the missal was in the middle and the elements on the edge, but that could have been the case.  Except that our pastors chanted Matins and the p. 5/15, so were "high" church for those parts at that time.

Dave Benke

peter_speckhard

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Re: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars
« Reply #62 on: April 25, 2014, 04:54:23 PM »
Our church has an all male "board of deacons" (what was called the board of elders in my other church) whose duties include doing the altar set-up and clean-up for communion services as well as assisting with distribution. Not sure how that started, but I see no reason to change it.

Dave Benke

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Re: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars
« Reply #63 on: April 25, 2014, 05:24:54 PM »
Our church has an all male "board of deacons" (what was called the board of elders in my other church) whose duties include doing the altar set-up and clean-up for communion services as well as assisting with distribution. Not sure how that started, but I see no reason to change it.

Whatever works.  On the other hand, you're not saying by that practice that women may not serve in a Missouri Synod congregation as assisting minister or on the altar guild. 

Dan Fienen

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Re: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars
« Reply #64 on: April 25, 2014, 10:13:47 PM »
As I prepare for my installation this coming Sunday I'm concerned, what if I discover to my horror that the tradition at my new church has the Missal Stand in the middle of the Altar, the Elements on the right side and the pastor pronouncing the Verba from the right side.  Is changing this a hill to die on?  Is this an issue to stake the viability of my continued ministry?  What is at stake with where the Elements are placed on the altar and where the pastor stands?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 11:17:27 PM by Dan Fienen »
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

peter_speckhard

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Re: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars
« Reply #65 on: April 25, 2014, 11:22:40 PM »
As I prepare for my installation this coming Sunday I'm concerned, what if I discover to my horror that the tradition at my new church has the Missal Stand in the middle of the Altar, the Elements on the right side and the pastor pronouncing the Verba from the right side.  Is changing this a hill to die on?  Is this an issue to stake the viability of my continued ministry?  What is at stake with where the Elements are placed on the altar and where the pastor stands?
At my last church I had never done the 11 pm Christmas Eve service as associate pastor, so my first year as senior pastor I discovered that the altar was so covered in poinsettias that the actual communion ware was on a cart next to the altar. I changed that long standing tradition immediately. Even though it is adiaphora, the symbolism of decorations displacing the elements was such a bad object lesson that I thought it worth changing by fiat even as a newbie.

John_Hannah

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Re: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars
« Reply #66 on: April 26, 2014, 06:39:57 AM »
I think I would do the same. That was gross.
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

Norman Teigen

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Re: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars
« Reply #67 on: April 26, 2014, 07:40:16 AM »
I would hope that the people in this new congregation would defer to your good judgment.  It is possible that the arrangements were carelessly made by an unthinking volunteer.  Placement of the altar makes for an interesting study in church history . 
Norman Teigen

Jim_Krauser

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Re: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars
« Reply #68 on: April 26, 2014, 08:05:22 AM »
then again, it may just be where Lutherans historically left the missal:

http://www.gloriachristi.org/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/2hamburg_lutheran_divine_service.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-diqFXY5RDDo/UUm9oxoMWjI/AAAAAAAAA9M/v0yf35saNpA/s1600/First+Lutheran+service+in+Brandenburg+1539.jpg

Books were much larger then weren't they.  And what with retables etc. mensas were often smaller.
Sometimes practices of one era were born of practicalities that have no reason or purpose in our own.
Yet they linger.

Jim Krauser

Pastor-Grace Evang. Lutheran Church, North Bellmore, NY

Harvey_Mozolak

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Re: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars
« Reply #69 on: April 26, 2014, 08:10:52 AM »
Very understandable...   I think there many things that should/must/ought to be squelched quickly because to continue them is to continue really bad symbolism or implications (even if all folks do not see it at first)...  to continue them is to buy into them.   But it is a hard choice, parental decisions about habits and patience and education...   Harvey Mozolak

At my last church I had never done the 11 pm Christmas Eve service as associate pastor, so my first year as senior pastor I discovered that the altar was so covered in poinsettias that the actual communion ware was on a cart next to the altar. I changed that long standing tradition immediately. Even though it is adiaphora, the symbolism of decorations displacing the elements was such a bad object lesson that I thought it worth changing by fiat even as a newbie.
[/quote]
Harvey S. Mozolak
my poetry blog is listed below:

http://lineandletterlettuce.blogspot.com