Author Topic: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars  (Read 7284 times)

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2014, 10:03:10 AM »

When I showed them the LSB rubric as well as Luther's instructions and a few other things I have collected over the years they looked absolutely shocked and said that in all their years from seminary to that moment they had never encountered a Lutheran self-communion in the Divine Service.


Similarly for me, and not solely regarding the celebrant's communing, as over the last couple of years when I've re-read the rubrics of the Common Service (in either the CSB or the SBH), rubrics our eyes went over week-after-week but, apparently, which we never saw because they didn't fit with the piety we, for one reason or another, practiced.

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Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2014, 11:25:06 AM »
Twice in the last half dozen years or so I have had LCMS Pastors in the congregation who told me that they almost did NOT commune BECAUSE I communed myself -- in their view a scandalous practice, from Rome, and presuming self-sufficiency and pride on the part of the Pastor.  When I showed them the LSB rubric as well as Luther's instructions and a few other things I have collected over the years they looked absolutely shocked and said that in all their years from seminary to that moment they had never encountered a Lutheran self-communion in the Divine Service.  To which I responded in shock that it is always surprising to me when we Lutherans have adopted anecdotal theology and practice as the norm and ignore our own theology and practice informed by the Lutheran Confessors....

Sometimes it's even worse than that, Pr. Peters. 6 or 7 years ago I covered a vacancy. The first Sunday, the elder who assisted, robed in alb, asked me if I would commune myself or if I would like one of them to commune me. I asked what the usual practice was (I try to maintain the status quo when filling a vacancy) and he responded, "[The previous pastor who had served them for many years] always communed himself first. But [the District guy who comes in and supposedly helps the congregation make a smooth transition, etc, who'd covered the vacancy for awhile prior to me taking over] told us that we'd been taught wrong, and he demanded that one of us commune him." I told them that they'd been taught correctly and that even the rubrics confirmed that. I communed myself, communed them, then we distributed to the congregation.

 :(
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 11:59:51 AM by Pr. Don Kirchner »
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Jim Butler

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Re: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2014, 02:21:49 PM »
Twice in the last half dozen years or so I have had LCMS Pastors in the congregation who told me that they almost did NOT commune BECAUSE I communed myself -- in their view a scandalous practice, from Rome, and presuming self-sufficiency and pride on the part of the Pastor.  When I showed them the LSB rubric as well as Luther's instructions and a few other things I have collected over the years they looked absolutely shocked and said that in all their years from seminary to that moment they had never encountered a Lutheran self-communion in the Divine Service.  To which I responded in shock that it is always surprising to me when we Lutherans have adopted anecdotal theology and practice as the norm and ignore our own theology and practice informed by the Lutheran Confessors....

IIRC, Dan Porkorny used to commune himself when he was the presider at the Supper at CSL in the early 80s.

However, while I've never had a problem with the celebrant communing himself, I have to say that I've rarely seen it done. The Boston LCMS Pastors meeting (comprising two circuits) communes together monthly and the celebrant always asks one of the other pastors to commune him at the end. In my first parish, the senior pastor and I communed one another.

I've never communed myself and won't start now. But I have no problem with those who practice otherwise. The important thing is that pastors receive the supper for the strengthening of their faith and the forgiveness of their sins. I don't think how they do that or where they stand during the Verba really matters all that much.
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RogerMartim

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Re: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2014, 02:22:29 PM »
Do I detect a thread drift?

Tim Schenks

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Re: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars
« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2014, 02:35:44 PM »
Do I detect a thread drift?

No. The thread is about Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars.

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars
« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2014, 02:38:04 PM »
Do I detect a thread drift?

Well, your issue is completed, isn't it?  Rather than ask us to speculate about what is going on, upon suggestion, you stated that "maybe [you'd] check in with the pastor at [your] Mom's church to ask why this continues." You might even find out why it should continue.
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Dave Benke

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Re: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2014, 03:55:37 PM »
The way to hold the thread together is with this question, "Do those pastors who commune themselves do so from the center of the altar or off to the side?"  Concomitantly, "Do those pastors who are communed by another pastor or an assisting minister do so from the center of the altar or from the side?"  Finally, "Are pastors who are communing themselves doing so from behind the altar at the center or in front of the altar at the center, and why or why not?"

It's so easy when you think it through.

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RogerMartim

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Re: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2014, 04:19:21 PM »
My original inquiry had to do with the consecration of the elements from the right side at some LCMS altars. I mentioned nothing about pastors communing themselves. That's a thread drift.

I am still awaiting a pastor friend of mine to respond back to me about the practice. When he does, I'll share with you with what he comes up with.


Tim Schenks

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Re: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2014, 01:23:37 AM »
Perhaps the title of this thread should have been "Consecration of the elements from the right side at some LCMS altars?"

Donald_Kirchner

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« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 11:20:01 PM by Pr. Don Kirchner »
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Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars
« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2014, 04:41:22 PM »
Don Kirchner

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Re: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars
« Reply #42 on: April 24, 2014, 02:14:33 PM »
Is this what is meant by "off to the side" or on the right side?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152346718509518&set=a.10150620004999518.416919.577494517&type=1

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203660265615449&set=a.1686687935313.2098037.1481102180&type=1

Hmm.  That looks like it.  Why is that missal in the middle? 

Dave Benke

Ask Pr. Wolfmueller (Colorado) or Pr. Mattsfield (Missouri).

As the Pr. Mattsfield in question (thanks for dragging me into this, Don . . . ), the short answer is that it was the practice I inherited, I have only been here 2 1/2 years and it hasn't been a big priority to change. I have already made one change in communion practice, and prefer to move slowly with change and then, only one change at a time.

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars
« Reply #43 on: April 24, 2014, 05:17:17 PM »
Well said and done, Wade.
Don Kirchner

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Dave Benke

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Re: Communion Practice at Many LCMS Altars
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2014, 07:12:40 AM »
Is this what is meant by "off to the side" or on the right side?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152346718509518&set=a.10150620004999518.416919.577494517&type=1

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203660265615449&set=a.1686687935313.2098037.1481102180&type=1

Hmm.  That looks like it.  Why is that missal in the middle? 

Dave Benke

Ask Pr. Wolfmueller (Colorado) or Pr. Mattsfield (Missouri).

As the Pr. Mattsfield in question (thanks for dragging me into this, Don . . . ), the short answer is that it was the practice I inherited, I have only been here 2 1/2 years and it hasn't been a big priority to change. I have already made one change in communion practice, and prefer to move slowly with change and then, only one change at a time.

Then maybe the longer answer would have to do with why this was the practice prior to your arrival, ie, why the missal in the middle? 

Dave Benke
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