Author Topic: Questions About 8 ELCA Seminaries  (Read 18737 times)

DCharlton

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Re: Questions About 8 ELCA Seminaries
« Reply #150 on: January 27, 2014, 04:03:19 PM »
Their new joint venture includes a link with Trinity Lutheran Seminary in Columbus, which is itself the product of a merger of Hamma School of Theology and Evangelical Lutheran Theological Seminary:

Tim notes: Recognizing there may be a cynical underlying tone to this observation, but Hamma was on the verge of fiscal collapse at the time of the "merger" (a polite term) with ELTS, which became Trinity. The "spin" was placed that the seminary merger demonstrated unity as a precursor of the ALC-LCA-AELC "new church (sic)" that followed. Internally, the integration of Hamma and ELTS was not all flowery as was the public relations image presented to the church-at-large. Now, having said that, I'm not suggesting it was a bad thing at all, but it doesn't really do justice to any sense of transparency, and thus, complete truthfulness, anymore so than transparency and truthfulness in the political sector.

It's may also be helpful to remember that ELTS, which merged with Hamma to form Trinity, was once part of Capital University.  My understanding is that the seminary had to become separate from  Capital as part of the merger of 1960. 
David Charlton  

Was Algul Siento a divinity school?

FrPeters

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Re: Questions About 8 ELCA Seminaries
« Reply #151 on: January 27, 2014, 04:19:52 PM »
Quote
Actually, if the above numbers are accurate, CSL has more than twice the number of students (321*2=642 < 644).  Not to put them in competition...

No, I was not trying to make them compete but as I said before more than 200 of their 621+/- students are SMP or alternative route NOT on campus so they do not have twice the student body on campus as Ft. Wayne.  The point I was trying to make had less to do with this than with overhead which is a BIG issue in sem costs and issues...
Fr Larry Peters
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LutherMan

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Re: Questions About 8 ELCA Seminaries
« Reply #152 on: January 27, 2014, 04:28:27 PM »
. I wish the LCMS would have opened our M.Div. track to NALC students. I think we could have had a positive influence on that body.
Ditto that Pr. Butler...

Birkholz

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Re: Questions About 8 ELCA Seminaries
« Reply #153 on: January 27, 2014, 04:38:39 PM »
A relevant current example of seminary closing is Seabury-Western (Episcopal):
In 2009, Seabury made the decision to sell its property to Northwestern University. The transaction, completed in July 2009, allowed Seabury to eliminate its debt, balance its budget, and position itself to realize a new mission.
The new mission is in collaboration with Bexley Hall: http://www.bexleyseabury.edu/history/ It looks as if the Boards of both institutions have made dramatic decisions in order to try to continue, in some form, the missions for which they were founded and endowed.

Their new joint venture includes a link with Trinity Lutheran Seminary in Columbus, which is itself the product of a merger of Hamma School of Theology and Evangelical Lutheran Theological Seminary: http://www.tlsohio.edu/about-trinity/introduction/history-and-mission

Peace,
Michael

You're going to see this on the more ecumenical side of the Protestant aisle.  On the more evangelicalist/fundamentalist/confessional side of the Protestant aisle, it's hard for me to imagine those more creative institutional amalgamation approaches.  It's not about need, finally, but more about trust and protection.  And in all these cases, there is the potential for a load of politics. 

Dave Benke

Even schools that were more denominational in orientation (e.g. Trinity Ev. Divinity School which was Evangelical Free Church) had many students that were not EFC in their M.Div. track and even some professors from other traditions.

Having studied recently at TEDS, I can confirm that EFC students and professors are definitely in the minority.  For most people there, the important thing was to identify with the Evangelical Movement.  Denominational identity was secondary, in most cases by a long shot.
Pastor Mark Birkholz
Zion Lutheran Church
Naperville, IL
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Keith Falk

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Re: Questions About 8 ELCA Seminaries
« Reply #154 on: January 27, 2014, 05:39:57 PM »
. I wish the LCMS would have opened our M.Div. track to NALC students. I think we could have had a positive influence on that body.
Ditto that Pr. Butler...


Some of us on the NALC wish that, as well.
Rev. Keith Falk, STS

Dave Benke

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Re: Questions About 8 ELCA Seminaries
« Reply #155 on: January 27, 2014, 06:08:36 PM »
. I wish the LCMS would have opened our M.Div. track to NALC students. I think we could have had a positive influence on that body.
Ditto that Pr. Butler...


Some of us on the NALC wish that, as well.

And what are the reasons that did not happen?  I probably should know.  But I don't.

Dave Benke

LutherMan

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Re: Questions About 8 ELCA Seminaries
« Reply #156 on: January 27, 2014, 06:15:25 PM »
. I wish the LCMS would have opened our M.Div. track to NALC students. I think we could have had a positive influence on that body.
Ditto that Pr. Butler...


Some of us on the NALC wish that, as well.

And what are the reasons that did not happen?  I probably should know.  But I don't.

Dave Benke
I think the  M.Div. track is only open to LCMS seminarians planning to serve an LCMS parish.  Advanced degrees are more open, I know Mark Braun from the WELS recieved a Ph.D. in  Historical theology, from Concordia Seminary, St. Louis, in 2000...
« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 06:41:50 PM by LutherMan »

Jim Butler

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Re: Questions About 8 ELCA Seminaries
« Reply #157 on: January 27, 2014, 07:06:53 PM »
. I wish the LCMS would have opened our M.Div. track to NALC students. I think we could have had a positive influence on that body.
Ditto that Pr. Butler...


Some of us on the NALC wish that, as well.

And what are the reasons that did not happen?  I probably should know.  But I don't.

Dave Benke
I think the  M.Div. track is only open to LCMS seminarians planning to serve an LCMS parish.  Advanced degrees are more open, I know Mark Braun from the WELS recieved a Ph.D. in  Historical theology, from Concordia Seminary, St. Louis, in 2000...

Mostly, but there have been exceptions over the years. There was a student a year behind me who was from a church that was in fellowship with the LCA (wish I could remember what it was). He didn't want to go to an LCA/ALC seminary--he wanted something more confessional. We've also had students in our M.Div. programs from the Lutheran Church in Australia over the years, not to mention that the TAALC seminary moved to the Fort Wayne campus before the two churches were in fellowship. In 1994, I met an ELCA student at Gordon-Conwell. Working with the folks at Fort Wayne, I managed to get him moved there for his education. At the time, he planned to go back to the ELCA, but wanted a more conservative seminary experience than he would get in an ELCA seminary.
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Satis Est

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Re: Questions About 8 ELCA Seminaries
« Reply #158 on: January 27, 2014, 07:33:04 PM »
. I wish the LCMS would have opened our M.Div. track to NALC students. I think we could have had a positive influence on that body.
Ditto that Pr. Butler...


Some of us on the NALC wish that, as well.

And what are the reasons that did not happen?  I probably should know.  But I don't.

Dave Benke
I think the  M.Div. track is only open to LCMS seminarians planning to serve an LCMS parish.  Advanced degrees are more open, I know Mark Braun from the WELS recieved a Ph.D. in  Historical theology, from Concordia Seminary, St. Louis, in 2000...

Mostly, but there have been exceptions over the years. There was a student a year behind me who was from a church that was in fellowship with the LCA (wish I could remember what it was). He didn't want to go to an LCA/ALC seminary--he wanted something more confessional. We've also had students in our M.Div. programs from the Lutheran Church in Australia over the years, not to mention that the TAALC seminary moved to the Fort Wayne campus before the two churches were in fellowship. In 1994, I met an ELCA student at Gordon-Conwell. Working with the folks at Fort Wayne, I managed to get him moved there for his education. At the time, he planned to go back to the ELCA, but wanted a more conservative seminary experience than he would get in an ELCA seminary.

Cherchez la femme.

FrPeters

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Re: Questions About 8 ELCA Seminaries
« Reply #159 on: January 27, 2014, 07:58:43 PM »
As I understand it, the NALC decision was less to do with restrictions on the LCMS side than with certain pushes from their side... at least that seemed to be what Nathan Yoder said at the Symposia... I do know that CTS Ft Wayne was close to the final cut before the choice was narrowed.  I also know that CTS was amenable to working with them.  Obviously the issue of women's ordination was the biggest barrier but not an impossible one to traverse...
Fr Larry Peters
Grace LCMS, Clarksville, TN
http://www.pastoralmeanderings.blogspot.com/

John_Hannah

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Re: Questions About 8 ELCA Seminaries
« Reply #160 on: January 28, 2014, 05:19:38 AM »
The experience of the once upon a time attempt by the Society of the Holy Trinity (STS) to partner with Ft. Wayne and have an STS House of Studies there suggests that, due to the ordination of women, it would be impossible for the LCMS to allow the NALC at the seminary. The STS experienced serious problems simply having our General Retreat during the Summertime when the seminary was not even in session.

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

Dave Benke

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Re: Questions About 8 ELCA Seminaries
« Reply #161 on: January 28, 2014, 08:40:01 AM »
As I understand it, the NALC decision was less to do with restrictions on the LCMS side than with certain pushes from their side... at least that seemed to be what Nathan Yoder said at the Symposia... I do know that CTS Ft Wayne was close to the final cut before the choice was narrowed.  I also know that CTS was amenable to working with them.  Obviously the issue of women's ordination was the biggest barrier but not an impossible one to traverse...

That makes more sense to me, thinking it over. 

Dave Benke

FrPeters

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Re: Questions About 8 ELCA Seminaries
« Reply #162 on: January 28, 2014, 09:23:59 AM »
The thinking was that with other sites available the women would be less than attracted to CTS but it would be the only choice in the NALC offings that was a traditional seminary program and the whole NALC program of seminary education would benefit from that...
Fr Larry Peters
Grace LCMS, Clarksville, TN
http://www.pastoralmeanderings.blogspot.com/

Dave Likeness

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Re: Questions About 8 ELCA Seminaries
« Reply #163 on: January 28, 2014, 09:25:21 AM »
The Lutheran Seminary at Gettysburg was founded
in 1826.  As the oldest Lutheran seminary in the USA
it has some historical significance, especially with the
Civil War.  I have been on their campus several times
and enjoyed the colonial architecture and visiting the
campus book store.

Talking to one of the professors, he said that this
seminary is in it for the long haul and have no plans
for closure.


Richard Johnson

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Re: Questions About 8 ELCA Seminaries
« Reply #164 on: January 28, 2014, 09:28:54 AM »


Talking to one of the professors, he said that this
seminary is in it for the long haul and have no plans
for closure.

Well, of course, none of them do. Until they do.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS