Questions About 8 ELCA Seminaries

[Dave Benke]

Must have been a light breeze into your face, or older clubs, because you should be striking that 8 iron about 145.  Man up.  Hit the 9. 
Dave Benke

Tim, laughing, responds: I've seen pictures of you. You have more "core" and thus more "torque" than I! I followed Greg Norman's advice - take one more club and swing easy!

Absolutely great advice, since most amateurs miss the green short and/or wide.  But it never gets in the way of my taking one club LESS and proving to myself that I can hit it as far as the pros.  Fail.

Dave Benke

[DCharlton]

Does anyone know the attrition rate among seminary graduates?  How many who graduate from an ELCA seminary are on the ELCA roster after 10 years, 20 years and 30 years?

My impression is that we lose a lot of pastors and AIMs, but its only an impression.  I often wonder how much of the predicted shortage of pastors is the result of people dropping off of the roster due lack of a call or burnout.  If a significant number or our seminary graduates drop out before they reach retirement, we need to ask why.  Do we need more people to go to seminary, or do we need to retain more of those who graduate?  What percentage of seminary graduates never receive a call or job in and ELCA congregation?  Are we encouraging people to invest in a seminary education because there is a place for them, or because we need the money?

I don't know the answer to those questions.

[Michael Slusser]

Does anyone know the attrition rate among seminary graduates?  How many who graduate from an ELCA seminary are on the ELCA roster after 10 years, 20 years and 30 years?

My impression is that we lose a lot of pastors and AIMs, but its only an impression.  I often wonder how much of the predicted shortage of pastors is the result of people dropping off of the roster due lack of a call or burnout.  If a significant number or our seminary graduates drop out before they reach retirement, we need to ask why.  Do we need more people to go to seminary, or do we need to retain more of those who graduate?  What percentage of seminary graduates never receive a call or job in and ELCA congregation?  Are we encouraging people to invest in a seminary education because there is a place for them, or because we need the money?

I don't know the answer to those questions.

But they are excellent questions!

[Dave Likeness]

In a article this month, Concordia Seminary St. Louis
"operates on balanced budgets, is debt free, and has
a stable enrollment of over 600 students  across all
programs."

This is good news for the LCMS and its 6,000 parishes
as this seminary continues to prepare pastors who can
lead healthy, Gospel centered congregations.

[Dave Benke]

In a article this month, Concordia Seminary St. Louis
"operates on balanced budgets, is debt free, and has
a stable enrollment of over 600 students  across all
programs."

This is good news for the LCMS and its 6,000 parishes
as this seminary continues to prepare pastors who can
lead healthy, Gospel centered congregations.

That is indeed good news.  What are the statistics at Ft. Wayne, from your reading?

Dave Benke

[FrPeters]

But... more than 200 of that 600 are off campus SMP students...  And another 100 are off campus for vicarage... and about 250 are MDiv... so that balance leaves 150 in various other programs... with about 250 actually on campus... with a budget twice Ft. Wayne...  and, by many estimations, a backlog of deferred maintenance

Ft. Wayne also is debt free (example is the new Library which is pay as you go completion)... with far fewer SMP students and about the 250 MDiv (including vicars)...

[Voelker]

But... more than 200 of that 600 are off campus SMP students...  And another 100 are off campus for vicarage... and about 250 are MDiv... so that balance leaves 150 in various other programs... with about 250 actually on campus... with a budget twice Ft. Wayne...  and, by many estimations, a backlog of deferred maintenance

Ft. Wayne also is debt free (example is the new Library which is pay as you go completion)... with far fewer SMP students and about the 250 MDiv (including vicars)...

Yes! CSL has an active, varied, and forward-looking program. It's good to see things rolling along; I just wish we could do something about student debt across the board.

[pastorg1@aol.com]

WSJ had a Saturday article about seminaries in the ATS reporting more second-career students entering the schools.

[Dave Likeness]

According to the Association of Theological Schools
these are statistics as of December 2013 for the
accredited Lutheran Seminaries in America.

St. Louis (LCMS)  644 Total Students/ 23 Full Time Faculty
Ft. Wayne LCMS   321/23

St. Paul (ELCA)    806/41
Philly (ELCA)       332/16
Chicago (ELCA)    284/17
Dubuque ELCA     172/8
Gettysburg ELCA  159/13
Columbus (ELCA   136/13
Berkley (ELCA)     118/9

[LutherMan]

Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary has 16 on faculty, could not find stats for students...
http://www.wls.wels.net/seminary/faculty

[Chuck]

According to the Association of Theological Schools
these are statistics as of December 2013 for the
accredited Lutheran Seminaries in America.

St. Louis (LCMS)  644 Total Students/ 23 Full Time Faculty
Ft. Wayne LCMS   321/23

St. Paul (ELCA)    806/41
Philly (ELCA)       332/16
Chicago (ELCA)    284/17
Dubuque ELCA     172/8
Gettysburg ELCA  159/13
Columbus (ELCA   136/13
Berkley (ELCA)     118/9

You forgot Columbia 108/8

[Matt Staneck]

CSL took a major gamble on the CBC property. That failed spectacularly. Despite that, they have rebounded economically and have *begun* work on the backlog of maintenance. Much more can be done. However, I'm not sure everyone understands the place it was in when John Johnson left, + CBC, and the job Dale Meyer and company have done to turn things around.

How wonderful it is to hear that both of our seminaries are not in debt! Praise God!

M. Staneck

[Dave Likeness]

Pastor Staneck, perhaps you could answer
a question.  Is part of the financial turn-
around at Concordia Sem St. Louis due
to reduction of full-time faculty to only 23?

[Matt Staneck]

Pastor Staneck, perhaps you could answer
a question.  Is part of the financial turn-
around at Concordia Sem St. Louis due
to reduction of full-time faculty to only 23?

No, uptick began before. This would have to do ( think) with retirees and others who have taken calls.

M. Staneck

[FrPeters]

One point you missed is that Ft. Wayne runs on half the budget of St. Louis and has no appreciable backlog of maintenance to be done.  CSL is an expensive campus to run and on campus does not have twice the students of CTS.  This is an issue.  Sems are expensive and the sad truth is that they are paid for on the backs of donors and students and not the church at large but CSL has a problem in overhead that is greater than Ft. Wayne.  Also the Fuerbringer Library is out of space while Ft Wayne has an abundance of space both for classes, dorms, library, and support areas.  I am not trying to put them in competition but rather to outline some of the commonalities and some of the differences.