Author Topic: Keeping Holy-day at Ascensiontide  (Read 25670 times)

Steven W Bohler

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Re: Keeping Holy-day at Ascensiontide
« Reply #315 on: May 20, 2020, 08:35:47 PM »
Pastor Fienen:
How many hymns does one sing at an Ascension Day Service? Do we need 12 hymns for the occasion in the hymnal to provide for an Ascension service?
Me:
Yes, because you donít only  sing  ascension day hymns on ascension day. That way you donít only sing Pentecost hymns on Pentecost, or Advent teams in Advent, or Christmas hymns at Christmas time.

Additionally, not every congregation is familiar with all the hymns.  My point was that the selections made in each hymnal's preparation gives a clue as to how "valuable" a particular feast or season is for that generation which put together the hymnal. 

Richard Johnson

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Re: Keeping Holy-day at Ascensiontide
« Reply #316 on: May 20, 2020, 09:50:43 PM »

I'd be interested to know why we have effectively lost the Feast of the Ascension of Our Lord.  Is it that services are held on a Thursday?  Something else?   Some congregations I know have joint services but I don't know of any churches around here other than Roman Catholic that commemorate this feast.

I'll be leading worship (on line) for Ascension Day tomorrow, but only because we have a regular Thursday morning service. And I'm doing it because the diocesan "clergy conference" is tomorrow--which says something about expectations of Episcopal parishes in this diocese regarding Ascension Day.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

peter_speckhard

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Re: Keeping Holy-day at Ascensiontide
« Reply #317 on: May 20, 2020, 10:24:19 PM »
Here is our circuitís service, featuring several pastors and sanctuaries in lieu of one sanctuary with the circuit and pastors all together. Thanks to Pastor Patrick Gumz of Trinity- Hammond for putting it together, using new equipment acquired via a special Lilly grant for churches to provide live-steam during COVId.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kYl-BhOUJZ0&feature=youtu.be

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Keeping Holy-day at Ascensiontide
« Reply #318 on: May 20, 2020, 10:24:57 PM »
I'd be interested to know why we have effectively lost the Feast of the Ascension of Our Lord.  Is it that services are held on a Thursday?  Something else?   Some congregations I know have joint services but I don't know of any churches around here other than Roman Catholic that commemorate this feast.

The Orthodox do, in fact, the Ascension is one of the twelve Great Feasts.

The West is one week ahead of us (or we are one week behind, take your pick) for the Paschal cycle this year.

But next Wednesday we will serve the Apodosis ("Leavetaking") of Pascha by repeating the entire Paschal Orthros and Divine Liturgy as had been served 39 days before; then assembling again on Thursday for the Great Feast of the Ascension.

We will not have an alignment of Orthodox Pascha and Western Easter until 2025.

But as for tomorrow, I will be chanting the Orthros and Divine Liturgy for the Feast of Sts. Constantine and Helen, Equals to the Apostles at 8:30 EDT.

Live stream here:

https://video.ibm.com/channel/v8GYFuyKMqZ


Same time for our services next Wednesday and Thursday.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 10:34:21 PM by J. Thomas Shelley »
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Rev. Edward Engelbrecht

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Re: Keeping Holy-day at Ascensiontide
« Reply #319 on: May 21, 2020, 05:10:37 AM »
We will, as usual, have two services today. However, one will be on the parking lot and one in the building. Normally, we have a pitch-in supper, activities for children, and a ceremony during which the young men remove the Lenten yard cross. But, due to Covid, we will not have anything beyond the services.

Blessed Ascension Day to you all.
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J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Keeping Holy-day at Ascensiontide
« Reply #320 on: May 21, 2020, 07:54:48 PM »
I had read the Epistle for the Feast of Saints Constantine and Helen, Equals to the Apostles in previous years, but conscious that today was Western Ascension Day I saw it through different eyes, and was struck by how portions of Paul's defense before King Agrippa parallels (and augments) the farewell words of Christ in Luke 24 and Acts 1.

Quote
Acts 26:1, 12-20

In those days, King Agrippa said to Paul, "You have permission to speak for yourself." Then Paul stretched out his hand and made his defense: "I journeyed to Damascus with the authority and commission of the chief priests. At midday, O king, I saw on the way a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining round me and those who journeyed with me. And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew language, 'Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It hurts you to kick against the goads.' And I said, 'Who are you, Lord?' And the Lord said, 'I am Jesus whom you are persecuting. But rise and stand upon your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to appoint you to serve and bear witness to the things in which you have seen me and to those in which I will appear to you, delivering you from the people and from the Gentiles - to whom I send you to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.' Wherefore, O King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those at Damascus, then at Jerusalem and throughout all the country of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God and perform deeds worthy of their repentance."
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James J Eivan

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Re: Keeping Holy-day at Ascensiontide
« Reply #321 on: May 21, 2020, 08:12:15 PM »
We will, as usual, have two services today. However, one will be on the parking lot and one in the building. Normally, we have a pitch-in supper, activities for children, and a ceremony during which the young men remove the Lenten yard cross. But, due to Covid, we will not have anything beyond the services.

Blessed Ascension Day to you all.
ĒPitch in supportĒ ... for the terminology challenged ... is that a regional term for a pot luck supper ... if not, how does a pitch-in supper differ from a pot luck supper?

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Keeping Holy-day at Ascensiontide
« Reply #322 on: May 12, 2021, 10:32:04 PM »
My Orthodox assimilation had progressed to the point that I had nearly forgotten that this is the sixth week of Western Easter until hearing a radio commercial for the predominantly Amish "Markets at Shrewsbury" which reminded listeners that "The Markets will be closed on May 13 for Ascension Day".

What Stephen Miller had told me a quarter century ago still holds true:  Ascension is a very holy day for the Amish.  A true sabbath.

On my side of the Bosporus Ascension--like all Feasts and Fasts connected to Pascha--will be four weeks from now on June 10. 
« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 11:15:00 PM by J. Thomas Shelley »
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peter_speckhard

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Re: Keeping Holy-day at Ascensiontide
« Reply #323 on: May 12, 2021, 10:41:02 PM »
My Orthodox assimilation had progressed to the point that I had nearly forgotten that this is the sixth week of Western Easter until hearing a radio commercial for the predominantly Amish "Markets at Shrewsbury" which reminded listeners that "The Markets will be closed on May 13 for Ascension Day".

What Stephen Miller had told me a quarter century ago still holds true:  Ascension is a very holy day for the Amish.  A true sabbath.

On my side of the Bosporus Ascension--like all Feasts and Fasts connected to Pascha--will be four weeks from now on June 10.
That surprises me about the Amish and the liturgical calendar. I don't know why, I just assumed the church year would not be a big deal to them.

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Keeping Holy-day at Ascensiontide
« Reply #324 on: May 12, 2021, 10:53:49 PM »
My Orthodox assimilation had progressed to the point that I had nearly forgotten that this is the sixth week of Western Easter until hearing a radio commercial for the predominantly Amish "Markets at Shrewsbury" which reminded listeners that "The Markets will be closed on May 13 for Ascension Day".

What Stephen Miller had told me a quarter century ago still holds true:  Ascension is a very holy day for the Amish.  A true sabbath.

On my side of the Bosporus Ascension--like all Feasts and Fasts connected to Pascha--will be four weeks from now on June 10.
That surprises me about the Amish and the liturgical calendar. I don't know why, I just assumed the church year would not be a big deal to them.

Easter and Ascension are their primary holy days.  "Old Michaelmass Day" (October 11) is also important as it is the Fast day before the Fall Communion.

Communion is twice a year:  Easter and the Sunday after Old Michaelmass.  (Could that have been one of the inspirations for the nearly forgotten "Worldwide Communion Sunday in October?) 

It is very curious to me how the Amish follow the Julian calendar for Michaelmass but the Gregorian/Western Pascha calendar for Ascension.  Of course Orthodoxy is split between Old and New Calendarists.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 11:15:49 PM by J. Thomas Shelley »
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D. Engebretson

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Re: Keeping Holy-day at Ascensiontide
« Reply #325 on: May 13, 2021, 10:15:09 AM »
What Stephen Miller had told me a quarter century ago still holds true:  Ascension is a very holy day for the Amish.  A true sabbath.

Now this is interesting.  I had no idea.  Considering how many churches that observe a liturgical calendar seem to overlook the Ascension, I am surprised that a 'low church' such as the Amish would observe it.

That said, contrary to how we will celebrate it at my church this evening, with a Divine Service of Holy Communion, the Amish appear simply to observe it as a kind of day of rest and family.  As one Amish man noted: "Most businesses close for the dayÖA few businesses might stay open, but I donít know of many that do. Mainly itís a day of rest for us. We think about the meaning of the day. We spend time with the family. Some districts might have church."

I wonder what they think of when they "think about the meaning of the day"?  For those of the Reformed faith the Ascension marks the essential removal of Jesus physical presence from the earth.  The NIV, a translation with much reformed influence, renders Peter's words regarding the Ascension in Acts 3:21 as "He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything" (instead of the Greek which reads: "whom heaven must receive").  'Real presence' churches that celebrate the Sacrament of our Lord's Supper celebrate his hidden, yet recognized presence in this event.  We celebrate His glorification at the right hand of the Father, but also celebrate how that same glorified Christ remains among us in a real and tangible way.  Do the Amish think about the glorification only?  What does it mean to them?  Why is it a 'holy day'?
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Keeping Holy-day at Ascensiontide
« Reply #326 on: May 13, 2021, 12:47:45 PM »
What Stephen Miller had told me a quarter century ago still holds true:  Ascension is a very holy day for the Amish.  A true sabbath.

Now this is interesting.  I had no idea.  Considering how many churches that observe a liturgical calendar seem to overlook the Ascension, I am surprised that a 'low church' such as the Amish would observe it.

That said, contrary to how we will celebrate it at my church this evening, with a Divine Service of Holy Communion, the Amish appear simply to observe it as a kind of day of rest and family.  As one Amish man noted: "Most businesses close for the dayÖA few businesses might stay open, but I donít know of many that do. Mainly itís a day of rest for us. We think about the meaning of the day. We spend time with the family. Some districts might have church."

I wonder what they think of when they "think about the meaning of the day"?  For those of the Reformed faith the Ascension marks the essential removal of Jesus physical presence from the earth.  The NIV, a translation with much reformed influence, renders Peter's words regarding the Ascension in Acts 3:21 as "He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything" (instead of the Greek which reads: "whom heaven must receive").  'Real presence' churches that celebrate the Sacrament of our Lord's Supper celebrate his hidden, yet recognized presence in this event.  We celebrate His glorification at the right hand of the Father, but also celebrate how that same glorified Christ remains among us in a real and tangible way.  Do the Amish think about the glorification only?  What does it mean to them?  Why is it a 'holy day'?


The NIV2011 has "Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets."

One issue with the NIV is that there have been four versions of it.
Version 1 published in 1978.
Version 2 published in 1984.
Version 3 published in 2005 and called Today's New International Version (TNIV) that was more gender inclusive.
Version 4 published in 2011, based on TNIV, but called NIV and was less gender inclusive than TNIV.


The CEB, also published in 2011 has: "Jesus must remain in heaven until the restoration of all things, about which God spoke long ago through his holy prophets."


The NRSV has: "who must remain in heaven until the time of universal restoration that God announced long ago through his holy prophets."


δέχομαι has as its basic meaning, "to receive (something)." Generally, it refers to receiving something that has been offered, although, occasionally, the receiving can venture into the idea of "taking (by force)." It is often used of "receiving guests," i.e., "to welcome." Of the 54 occurrences of this word in the NT, the NRSV translates it "welcome" 54 times.


While I wouldn't use "remain" to translate Acts 3:21, the only place the NRSV translates it that way, it does convey the sense that "heaven must welcomed him until the time of the restoration of all things." The welcome implies being able to stay until that future event.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 01:27:41 PM by Brian Stoffregen »
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Re: Keeping Holy-day at Ascensiontide
« Reply #327 on: May 13, 2021, 01:04:25 PM »
What Stephen Miller had told me a quarter century ago still holds true:  Ascension is a very holy day for the Amish.  A true sabbath.

Now this is interesting.  I had no idea.  Considering how many churches that observe a liturgical calendar seem to overlook the Ascension, I am surprised that a 'low church' such as the Amish would observe it.

That said, contrary to how we will celebrate it at my church this evening, with a Divine Service of Holy Communion, the Amish appear simply to observe it as a kind of day of rest and family.  As one Amish man noted: "Most businesses close for the dayÖA few businesses might stay open, but I donít know of many that do. Mainly itís a day of rest for us. We think about the meaning of the day. We spend time with the family. Some districts might have church."

I wonder what they think of when they "think about the meaning of the day"?  For those of the Reformed faith the Ascension marks the essential removal of Jesus physical presence from the earth.  The NIV, a translation with much reformed influence, renders Peter's words regarding the Ascension in Acts 3:21 as "He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything" (instead of the Greek which reads: "whom heaven must receive").  'Real presence' churches that celebrate the Sacrament of our Lord's Supper celebrate his hidden, yet recognized presence in this event.  We celebrate His glorification at the right hand of the Father, but also celebrate how that same glorified Christ remains among us in a real and tangible way.  Do the Amish think about the glorification only?  What does it mean to them?  Why is it a 'holy day'?


The NIV2011 has "Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets."


One issue with the NIV is that there have been four versions of it.
Version 1 published in 1978.
Version 2 published in 1984.
Version 3 published in 2005 and called Today's New International Version (TNIV) that was more gender inclusive.
Version 4 published in 2011, based on TNIV, but called NIV and was less gender inclusive than TNIV.

The version our church used for a number of years, both as a pew Bible and for Bible classes, was the one published in 1984, and it is the one to which I refer above. 

After these were removed we purchased the ESV. 
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI