Author Topic: LWF says NO to Lutheran Rite in RCC  (Read 4746 times)

vicarbob

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Re: LWF says NO to Lutheran Rite in RCC
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2013, 11:03:07 AM »
If fellowship with the Bishop of Rome is seen as something neither desirable or attainable, one of the principal reasons for the existence of the Society of the Holy Trinity is moot.
If I have little institutional hindrance to being faithful to my Ordination vows, another reason for the "Rule" is moot.
With the main function of the STS is retreats, that can be a good reason for it to be around. 
Since I get hassled for being a member of a "unionistic" Society, it is becoming clear to me that this looks like a good time to save the considerable amount of money I spend each year to travel to and from retreats.
Being Lutheran makes the STS by definition quietistic and reluctant to act on opportunities that present themselves (like our meetings with Archbishop Chaput that resulted only in David Wendel getting invited to some receptions with the Papal Nuncio), there is no longer any reason for this guy to remain.
Bummer.....major bummer.

My dear Reverend Brother in Christ, I pray that your journey does not absent you from the STS, of which I hope to become a Subscriber to the Rule at the next Annual Retreat. It was because of coming to know a priest like yourself (to the extent that a blog and e-mail messages can constitute "knowing another), that my own journey is filled with hope and a centerness in the Sacraments and the Word of God.
I see no reason why Lutherans can not accept the Bishop of Rome as the First Among Equals, it is in our Confession......as you haves stated many times and much more eloquently, we are a reforming movement within the RCC.
Your continued, active participation of the STS is essential to future dialogue and even not so gentle nudging of the Society to be a voice in the Church of the Augsburg Confession..to speak things in faith and love and to be willing to be viewed as "other" by some who have their own journey's and unfortunate agendas.
So if even for the sake of a potential "newbie", stay Brother....
IHS,
Bob+
I have to say, THIS discussion is the Forum at its very BEST !!!!



J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: LWF says NO to Lutheran Rite in RCC
« Reply #46 on: January 26, 2013, 12:20:47 PM »
My dear Reverend Brother in Christ, I pray that your journey does not absent you from the STS, of which I hope to become a Subscriber to the Rule at the next Annual Retreat. It was because of coming to know a priest like yourself (to the extent that a blog and e-mail messages can constitute "knowing another), that my own journey is filled with hope and a centerness in the Sacraments and the Word of God....

Your continued, active participation of the STS is essential to future dialogue and even not so gentle nudging of the Society to be a voice in the Church of the Augsburg Confession..to speak things in faith and love and to be willing to be viewed as "other" by some who have their own journey's and unfortunate agendas.

Amen.

I have to say, THIS discussion is the Forum at its very BEST !!!!

Aye.
Greek Orthodox-Ecumenical Patriarchate

Baptized, Confirmed, and Ordained United Methodist.
Served as a Lutheran Pastor October 31, 1989 - October 31, 2014.
Charter member of the first chapter of the Society of the Holy Trinity.

Chrismated Antiochian Orthodox, eve of Mary of Egypt Sunday, A.D. 2015

cssml

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Re: LWF says NO to Lutheran Rite in RCC
« Reply #47 on: January 26, 2013, 01:13:57 PM »
FATHER SLUSSER (and others)

There is a more recent translation, "The Confutation of the Augsburg confession" by Mark D. Tranvik, pp. 105-139 in Sources and Contexts of the Book of Concord, Robert Kolb and James Nestigen editors, 2001, Minneapolis: Fortress.

Peace, JOHN

THANK YOU! I'll order it today. The one on Project Gutenberg is, however, free for anyone to download, which is helpful.

Peace,
Michael

Is this one considered a good version?  It has a nice cross links in each section for the AC, confutation, and apology.

  http://bookofconcord.org/confutatio.php

cssml

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Re: LWF says NO to Lutheran Rite in RCC
« Reply #48 on: January 26, 2013, 01:33:57 PM »
It seems clear that the Church, from the beginning, included the practice of fasting.  For instance (my emphasis):

St. Augustine:

"Fasting must not seem to you of little importance or superfluous. Those who fast, in accordance with the Church's customs, should not think to themselves: What is the point of fasting? You shorten your life, you bring about something negative. Can God want you to torment yourself? It would be cruel if he took pleasure in your suffering.... But you should respond to the tempter in this way: I will certainly impose privation, but it is so that he will forgive me, to be pleasing in his eyes, that I may enjoy his delightfulness..." (cf. St Augustine, Sermo 400 De utilitate ieiunii, 3,3 [PL 40, 708]).

Tertullian: "On fasting, against the materialistic"
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0408.htm
http://www.tertullian.org/works/de_jejunio.htm

Tertullian in late 2nd, or early 3rd century defends both the practice of fasting, and the role of the church in discerning and setting the times and types of fasts to be observed.  This writing is not in complete accord with Catholic understanding (it is stated to be Montanist?), but it clearly documents long established fasting practices in the Church in the very early post apostolic age (written between 180-225?).  For instance, as the second link above states: 

"Normal fasting for the carnal Christians was every Wednesday and Friday(ch.14), together with an Easter fast from Friday to Sunday. (ch.2,13,14). In addition there were some days without wine (xerophagies) (ch.2)."

After giving a litany of arguments (from scripture) made by the materialists (Psychics), he concludes chapter 2 with:

"By the instrumentalities of these and similar passages, they [Phychics] subtlely tend at last to such a point, that every one who is somewhat prone to appetite finds it possible to regard as superfluous, and not so very necessary, the duties of abstinence from, or diminution or delay of, food, since "God," forsooth, "prefers the works of justice and of innocence." And we know the quality of the hortatory addresses of carnal conveniences, how easy it is to say, "I must believe with my whole heart; I must love God, and my neighbour as myself: for 'on these two precepts the whole Law hangs, and the prophets,' not on the emptiness of my lungs and intestines."

Michael Slusser

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Re: LWF says NO to Lutheran Rite in RCC
« Reply #49 on: January 26, 2013, 01:57:27 PM »
THANK YOU! I'll order it today. The one on Project Gutenberg is, however, free for anyone to download, which is helpful.

Peace,
Michael

Is this one considered a good version?  It has a nice cross links in each section for the AC, confutation, and apology.

  http://bookofconcord.org/confutatio.php

That's the same one you can download from Project Gutenberg--
Quote
Edited by J.M. Reu. Published in The Augsburg Confession, A Collection of Sources. (Fort Wayne, IN: Concordia Theological Seminary Press), pp. 349-383.

Peace,
Michael
Fr. Michael Slusser
Retired Roman Catholic priest and theologian

Weedon

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Re: LWF says NO to Lutheran Rite in RCC
« Reply #50 on: January 26, 2013, 07:50:54 PM »
Father,

Right on. Not an objection to fasting; for fasting continued to be urged and practiced in the Lutheran Church. It was rather an objection to the insistence that a certain form and shape of fasting be observed by all Christians which, if they did not observe, they sinned.