Author Topic: Yesterday...  (Read 1004 times)

RogerMartim

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Yesterday...
« on: November 23, 2012, 08:03:28 PM »
...my sister and I were traveling through Southeastern Minnesota. We had our Tom Turkey dinner at my sister-in-law's. Then we went to my brother's farm for pumpkin and minced meat pies. Of a distance of some 30-35 miles and through small towns, we passed by a lot of Lutheran churches and we tried to note whether they are ELCA or LCMS. In many small towns both are across the street from one another. Passing by St. John's, I noted that it was ELCA and and she said, "No, it's LCMC." I guess my eyes weren't quick enough. My sister asked me what was LCMC. I couldn't tell her.

What a sad state of affairs that the Lutheran Church is dividing into so many acronyms that can't be kept track of. I am assuming much of it is the divide that has mostly to do with one's political and even progressive sexual views, especially those views that have to do with homosexuality. Rather than discussion, we wallow in an alphabet soup of maddening acronyms.

Rev. Spaceman

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Re: Yesterday...
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2012, 08:51:12 PM »
...my sister and I were traveling through Southeastern Minnesota. We had our Tom Turkey dinner at my sister-in-law's. Then we went to my brother's farm for pumpkin and minced meat pies. Of a distance of some 30-35 miles and through small towns, we passed by a lot of Lutheran churches and we tried to note whether they are ELCA or LCMS. In many small towns both are across the street from one another. Passing by St. John's, I noted that it was ELCA and and she said, "No, it's LCMC." I guess my eyes weren't quick enough. My sister asked me what was LCMC. I couldn't tell her.

What a sad state of affairs that the Lutheran Church is dividing into so many acronyms that can't be kept track of. I am assuming much of it is the divide that has mostly to do with one's political and even progressive sexual views, especially those views that have to do with homosexuality. Rather than discussion, we wallow in an alphabet soup of maddening acronyms.

This really isn't anything new.  For some time now Lutherans in the USA have had two major-sized denominational bodies, but there have been a number of smaller bodies as well.  Back in the 1950s, there were about as many Lutheran denominations as there are today but with the numbers of Lutherans more evenly divided among the various groups.  That division had a lot to do with different ethnic backgrounds, but it also had to do with honest doctrinal differences. 

I think you are right that differing views on sexuality are largely responsible for the most recent division among Lutherans, but there's more to it than that.  Many believe that the sexuality debate is just a part of a larger disagreement on more fundamental issues, such as the nature of the gospel itself (acceptance/"inclusivity" vs. repentance/redemption).

As far as "discussion," that has been tried, the result of which was a recognition by many that they were really speaking different languages of faith. 

As for LCMC, you can find information here: www.lcmc.net
For NALC, www.thenalc.org
Rev. Thomas E. Jacobson, Ph.D

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Yesterday...
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2012, 09:43:36 PM »
Many believe that the sexuality debate is just a part of a larger disagreement on more fundamental issues, such as the nature of the gospel itself (acceptance/"inclusivity" vs. repentance/redemption).

And some of us believe that the issue is even more fundamental:  proclaim Law and Gospel or strain all Scripture through the filter of Gospel reductionism.
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Charles_Austin

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Re: Yesterday...
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2012, 11:19:47 PM »
Lutherans have rarely been "unified," and are probably more unified now than when we needed a church for the Germans, another one for the Swedes, one for the Finns, one for the Danes (maybe two), and at least two for the Norwegians (each Norwegian needs a church that they can say they would never go to).
And we began unifying, hence the "old" ALC, The ALC, the LCA and now the ELCA.We don't have the "unity" thing quite right yet.

Team Hesse

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Re: Yesterday...
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2012, 12:11:13 AM »
Many believe that the sexuality debate is just a part of a larger disagreement on more fundamental issues, such as the nature of the gospel itself (acceptance/"inclusivity" vs. repentance/redemption).

And some of us believe that the issue is even more fundamental:  proclaim Law and Gospel or strain all Scripture through the filter of Gospel reductionism.


Or the filter of enlightenment rationality. Luther had some interesting things to say about the mix of faith and reason in the "Disputation concerning The Word Became Flesh" of 1539.


Lou

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Re: Yesterday...
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2012, 01:23:36 AM »
Lutherans have rarely been "unified," and are probably more unified now than when we needed a church for the Germans, another one for the Swedes, one for the Finns, one for the Danes (maybe two), and at least two for the Norwegians (each Norwegian needs a church that they can say they would never go to).
And we began unifying, hence the "old" ALC, The ALC, the LCA and now the ELCA.We don't have the "unity" thing quite right yet.

Actually, at one point, there were as many as five different Norwegian Lutheran denominations!
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Tim Schenks

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Re: Yesterday...
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2012, 02:53:28 AM »
It's like that sketch from Monty Python's Life of Brian.  The People's Front of Judea, the Judean People's Front, the Popular People's Front of Judea, etc.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Yesterday...
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2012, 12:59:43 PM »
I've suggested that denominationalism began when the different people healed of blindness got together - each assuming that his way of being healed with the correct way. They divided between the muddites and the non-muddites. Spittites and non=spittites. Those who required a touch (or two) and those who were healed from a distance without a touch.

"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]