Poll

Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?

David Adams
0 (0%)
David Benke
9 (16.1%)
William Diekelman
0 (0%)
Carl Fickenscher II
1 (1.8%)
Daniel Gard
4 (7.1%)
Randall Golter
0 (0%)
Matthew Harrison
30 (53.6%)
Herbert Mueller, Jr
0 (0%)
Wallace Schulz
1 (1.8%)
Dean Wenthe
0 (0%)
Someone else (please provide a specific candidate)
3 (5.4%)
Who cares? Throw a dart at the roster directory.
8 (14.3%)

Total Members Voted: 38

Author Topic: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?  (Read 8862 times)

Keith Falk

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 1649
    • View Profile
Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2012, 04:21:14 PM »
I understand the difficulties of changing a constitution, and, seeing as how I am not LCMS, I don't have a horse in the race. 


But if theological training is good/desired for the position - while accepting that it isn't a called position - couldn't someone like a deaconess serve in that position?  Or is there a theological reason why the SP should be ordained?
Rev. Keith Falk, STS

swbohler

  • Guest
Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2012, 04:35:51 PM »
I understand the difficulties of changing a constitution, and, seeing as how I am not LCMS, I don't have a horse in the race. 


But if theological training is good/desired for the position - while accepting that it isn't a called position - couldn't someone like a deaconess serve in that position?  Or is there a theological reason why the SP should be ordained?

I would think that pastoral experience would be seen as indispensable to the office.  Sort of like the LCMS requirement that seminary professors have served a minimum number of years in the field.  Could a layman possess adequate theological knowledge to be a seminary professor?  Sure.  But he would not have the practical experience that aids in applying that knowledge in real-life situations as a pastor would/should have.  Similarly, a non-ordained synod president could possess adequate theological knowledge to "do the job" but he would lack the pastoral experience that greatly aids in carrying out that office.

Mike Gehlhausen

  • Guest
Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2012, 04:43:51 PM »
Could a layman possess adequate theological knowledge to be a seminary professor?  Sure.  But he would not have the practical experience that aids in applying that knowledge in real-life situations as a pastor would/should have.  Similarly, a non-ordained synod president could possess adequate theological knowledge to "do the job" but he would lack the pastoral experience that greatly aids in carrying out that office.

Martin Franzmann was by all accounts an excellent seminary professor.

Philipp Melancthon wrote much of the Book of Concord.

Neither were ordained.

And who is to say that congregational service as a deacon or deaconess would not provide the practical experience in a congregation needed?

Mike

Charles_Austin

  • Guest
Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2012, 04:50:49 PM »
When H. George Anderson, a seminary professor, was a candidate for Presiding Bishop in the ELCA, he was asked about his supposed "lack" of "parish experience." He explained calmly that he did not lack parish experience, for he had been an active member of parishes all his life. The thought that only a pastor can understand "pastoral" ministry is absurd.

swbohler

  • Guest
Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2012, 06:15:58 PM »
When H. George Anderson, a seminary professor, was a candidate for Presiding Bishop in the ELCA, he was asked about his supposed "lack" of "parish experience." He explained calmly that he did not lack parish experience, for he had been an active member of parishes all his life. The thought that only a pastor can understand "pastoral" ministry is absurd.

Sheep may think they know what shepherd does but they know only a small portion.  No one -- no one -- in my congregations knows what it means to be a pastor.  They have an idea about this or that part, but they have no concept of the entirety. 

Similarly, I may think I know what a synod or district president does but I really do not.  I know bits and pieces but not all that they do.  However, I would think that, on average, a pastor would have a better handle on it than a parochial school teacher, or deaconess, or Director of Christian Education, or other church worker because pastors typically have more interaction with district presidents.

swbohler

  • Guest
Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2012, 06:25:06 PM »
Could a layman possess adequate theological knowledge to be a seminary professor?  Sure.  But he would not have the practical experience that aids in applying that knowledge in real-life situations as a pastor would/should have.  Similarly, a non-ordained synod president could possess adequate theological knowledge to "do the job" but he would lack the pastoral experience that greatly aids in carrying out that office.

Martin Franzmann was by all accounts an excellent seminary professor.

Philipp Melancthon wrote much of the Book of Concord.

Neither were ordained.

And who is to say that congregational service as a deacon or deaconess would not provide the practical experience in a congregation needed?

Mike

Neither of those men were synod presidents either.  :)

Melanchthon and Franzmann get brought up because they are exceptions (or maybe better stated, exceptional).  General rules are designed based on the normal, not the extraordinary.  Jesus was not ordained but I would have no problem with Him as my synod president.  But that does not mean that ANY non-ordained person is capable of the job.  Could a deacon or deaconess (or parochial school teacher or DCE or other church worker) have the desired theological knowledge and experience in applying it to do the job of synod president?  I suppose so.  But are we going to say that ANY deaconess or deacon or other church worker does?  If not, then how do you write the bit in the Constitution about "job qualifications"? 

Dan Fienen

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 12578
    • View Profile
Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2012, 06:51:55 PM »
Some of the most difficult members I've had to deal with are those who think that they could.ve been good pastor if they had so decided.  Since I did not do things their way, or have their personality, obviously I was not that good of a pastor.
 
Dan
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

Charles_Austin

  • Guest
Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2012, 10:27:21 PM »
The suggestion that only another pastor can truly "understand" a pastor or the pastoral ministry is - in my not so humble opinion - a harbinger of the worst kind of arrogant clericalism. You have your boards of elders, we have mutual ministry committees, both designed to help the pastor and evaluate the ministry. They know enough, understand enough, and are smart and Christian enough to do so.
We are not so special as we sometimes like to think.

swbohler

  • Guest
Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2012, 10:41:52 PM »
Rev. Austin,

I did not say that laymen do not understand the pastoral ministry.  I said they do not know all that a pastor does.  They know bits and pieces -- those things they see and hear -- but they do not know all of it.  Just as, I said, I do not know all that a district or synod president does.  I know bits and pieces -- those things I see and hear of his work -- but there is MUCH behind the scenes stuff that I do not know.  And cannot know, really.  Or, to use another analogy, I know some of what a parent does but, not having children myself, I do not know what it is really like to be a father.  Some things you just have to do in order to really know the depth and breadth of them. 

By the way, I think you are special.   :)

Mike Gehlhausen

  • Guest
Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2012, 08:36:51 AM »
Melanchthon and Franzmann get brought up because they are exceptions (or maybe better stated, exceptional).  General rules are designed based on the normal, not the extraordinary.

Yes, but Dcs. Schave is exceptional so my point stands.  ;)

MIke

swbohler

  • Guest
Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2012, 10:52:47 AM »
I'll not argue about Deaconess Schave being exceptional.  But that is still not a reason to change a constitutional requirement.

Dave Benke

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 12442
    • View Profile
    • Atlantic District, LCMS
Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2012, 03:30:44 PM »
Needing a little break here in the midst of a tremendous unfolding disaster/mess in NY/NJ Metro.  National Guard at the gas station down the block from my parish with mile long lines.  Staten Island terrifically hit with 20-30 deaths.

Our Atlantic District disaster response hit the ground immediately and we have assessed much of the direct need in workers, parishes, but the community needs are just enormous and we're organizing that effort and carrying it out already.  But we have also been accompanied by the national LCMS office, which sent Director of National Mission Bart Day, Disaster Response Coordinator Glen Meritt, and Disaster Response Associate Carlos Hernandez to be with us already on Wednesday evening.  We met with one of our pastors who lost his home out on Long Island, Alan Steinke, and a new AD Pastor, Matt Popovits, and three young Latino men from my parish assisted in that emotional cleanup and removal of treasured belongings.

My point being that one of the marks of leadership is presence in time of trouble, and the Missouri Synod in my opinion stands out in that regard, and has in my experience in the Atlantic District back to the days after September 11 when we founded LDRNY in an inter-Lutheran way.

So nominees need again in my opinion to have an incarnational concept of Lutheran mission and ministry - not above and in the clouds or behind the academic tower of ivory, but down in the mud and the mess where God's people bring His love in the flesh.

Dave Benke

Buckeye Deaconess

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 3036
    • View Profile
Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2012, 04:21:10 PM »
But we have also been accompanied by the national LCMS office, which sent Director of National Mission Bart Day, Disaster Response Coordinator Glen Meritt, and Disaster Response Associate Carlos Hernandez to be with us already on Wednesday evening. 

You were in great hands to be sure.  I suspect a whole lot of help is on the way soon, Pres. Benke.  It will just take a little time for the initial confusion (present in the aftermath of every disaster) to pass.

Weedon

  • Guest
Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2012, 09:53:19 PM »
Bishop,

Thank you so much for the bit of update. Know that we remembered the devastation a number of times in prayer at the International Conference. May the Lord have great use of His children in these distressing times to minister to overwhelming human need and to share an even more overwhelming and certain hope - a home that cannot be taken away or destroyed.  Koinonia - also the term for the sharing in earthly goods with those in need.  A blessed thing, communion.

Dave Benke

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 12442
    • View Profile
    • Atlantic District, LCMS
Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2012, 09:59:25 PM »
thanks for the prayers.  We have a great local disaster response group, and some fine congregations on the ground - the assistance from the national level gives that sense that there IS a wider church, and that there are people who will be there through the storm.  If you go to lcms.org, there are pics and videos including one of me with a Green Bay Packers cap on (couldn't resist) at the side of one of our pastors who lost his home on Long Island.  But there's a pic of two young men there who are my parishioners, who helped dig out that place - it's really about the incarnational aspect of the ministry of Jesus, pure and simple.

Dave Benke