Started by Dave Likeness, September 19, 2012, 10:10:22 AM
Quote from: Charles_Austin on September 24, 2012, 04:38:47 PMSince the earliest days, the Church has always honored and sought leaders conversant with the philosophies of their day, able to dialogue with those philosophies and defend the faith before the thinkers of those philosophies.From Augustine, to Aquinas, to Luther, those best known for defending, renewing and preserving the faith had more than one foot in academia.A few Reformers - Francis, par example - came to their greatness in other ways, but for the most part it was men and women of education and "thought" and not faucet-fixers who plumbed the depths of the faith and advanced our understanding.
Quote from: Weedon on September 24, 2012, 07:27:56 PMI think we need to recognize the concern: educate a devil and you have a clever devil. And it is very true that one can learn things of far greater value from a sanctified, but uneducated, lay person than from one of those clever devils in a collar. That is in no way to attack the value of education in general and theological education in particular; it is to recognize that education alone is not and can never be sufficient. It can't make up for the genuine wisdom that arises from sanctification under the cross. St. Jerome was right.
Quote from: Dave Likeness on September 24, 2012, 08:39:33 PMCharles Austin has nailed it, "If someone says,'I've got the Holy Spirit, nuts to everything else'you have got trouble."
Quote from: Dave Likeness on September 24, 2012, 08:39:33 PMThis is the attitude of the Pentecostal TV Evangelists,like Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer,Fred Price, and Joel Osteen, who all preach theHealth and Wealth" Gospel. None of them haveany theological education or seminary degree.As far as I can ascertain they all have only a high school diploma. They preach a false gospel tomillions of people and they make millions of dollars.
Quote from: ScottG on September 24, 2012, 09:19:05 PMNonetheless it could be argued that the use of Greco-Roman philosophical understandings to further understand and explicate the truths of God by the likes of Justin Martyr and Origen might have done a disservice to the Gospel and Jesus' teachings.
Quote from: Charles_Austin on September 25, 2012, 03:56:04 AMAnyone with a few years of direct experience in the church should see the danger that arrives when the individual, personalized "I's" prevail.
Quote from: Charles_Austin on September 25, 2012, 03:56:04 AM"I know what the Bible says, so no Council of the Church, Synod, denomination, convention, assembly, confessional statement or theologian can contradict what I know," is not how Lutherans think theologically.
QuoteWho is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such "wisdom" does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don't they come from your desires that battle within you? You desire but do not have, so you kill. You covet but you cannot get what you want, so you quarrel and fight. You do not have because you do not ask God. When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. Or do you think Scripture says without reason that he jealously longs for the spirit he has caused to dwell in us? But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says:"God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble."Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.- James 3:13-4:10
Quote from: Charles_Austin on September 25, 2012, 03:56:04 AM I wrote: "If someone says, 'I've got the Holy Spirit, nuts to everything else' you have got trouble." Mr. Erdner replied:When, and if, someone says that, I take that into consideration.I muse:And there is that persistent, troublesome, and dangerous "I" again. Simply substituting oneself for the one who claims ownership of the Holy Spirit is not how it works. "I don't like what that one is saying, so he's a fraud" is a meaningless statement. "I think that pastor or group of pastors has got it wrong, so I'm not recognizing them as pastors," is sectarian and arrogant."I know what the Bible says, so no Council of the Church, Synod, denomination, convention, assembly, confessional statement or theologian can contradict what I know," is not how Lutherans think theologically. Anyone with a few years of direct experience in the church should see the danger that arrives when the individual, personalized "I's" prevail.