Author Topic: What does this mean? The new head of the Roman Catholic CDF & Lutherans  (Read 1664 times)

pr dtp

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http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Item/1586/the_new_man_at_the_helm_of_the_holy_office.aspx

Note how often the work with Lutherans comes up in the article.

Wouldn't it be incredible, if by the 500th year of the beginning of the "Reformation" that which was broken was healed!

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: What does this mean? The new head of the Roman Catholic CDF & Lutherans
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2012, 02:07:36 PM »
Wouldn't it be incredible, if by the 500th year of the beginning of the "Reformation" that which was broken was healed!

"our our separated Lutheran brethren" is tremendous progress from the "heretical ministers" decried in the Baltimore Catechism.
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John, an Unlikely Pastor

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Re: What does this mean? The new head of the Roman Catholic CDF & Lutherans
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2012, 02:42:49 PM »
As a cradle catholic with 13 years in Lutheran ministry I think this is great news.

It means two things
1) the Spirit has been at work and the old man made barriers are beginning to come down. 
2) there's a very different understanding of church today in Rome than even 60 years ago and we can live with that.

Pax, John
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revjagow

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Re: What does this mean? The new head of the Roman Catholic CDF & Lutherans
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2012, 03:19:28 PM »
Very interesting.   At the very least, the anniversary of the Reformation is on the Vatican radar screen.  At the most, we can pray for greater unity at least on matters such as Life Issues and marriage, and greater networking as we advocate for our schools and social ministries. 

And... hey, is that a trailer for a movie about the life of Augustine?  That looks pretty cool too.   8)
Soli Deo Gloria!

pr dtp

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Re: What does this mean? The new head of the Roman Catholic CDF & Lutherans
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2012, 05:43:39 PM »
I find it interesting that there are two groups that he has experience with, SPXX and the Lutherans. One would  I pray the discussions are honest and blunt, and yet filled with the compassion and love of Christ.

The greatest possible way to celebrate 2015 would be for the walls to really (and not just for "image") to really come down between us and Rome.

LCMS87

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Re: What does this mean? The new head of the Roman Catholic CDF & Lutherans
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2012, 09:57:06 PM »
Not much to do with the Lutheran angle, I know, but as we approach the first Tuesday in November I found this paragraph from the article striking: 

"In his interview on Vatican Radio, the new prefect commented:  'One can be Catholic only when one acknowledges the Church’s faith wholly and entirely.  That includes the Magisterium, and the Second Vatican Council is also a very significant part of the Magisterium.… The unity of the Church and the truth of the faith are two sides of the same coin.' ”  (emphasis added)  Substitute "Lutheran Symbols" for "Magisterium . . . Magesterium" and he sounds like a hardline Missourian.

Clearly Archbishop Müller rejects the conceit of the cafeteria Catholic entirely.

pr dtp

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Re: What does this mean? The new head of the Roman Catholic CDF & Lutherans
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2012, 11:37:02 PM »
Not much to do with the Lutheran angle, I know, but as we approach the first Tuesday in November I found this paragraph from the article striking: 

"In his interview on Vatican Radio, the new prefect commented:  'One can be Catholic only when one acknowledges the Church’s faith wholly and entirely.  That includes the Magisterium, and the Second Vatican Council is also a very significant part of the Magisterium.… The unity of the Church and the truth of the faith are two sides of the same coin.' ”  (emphasis added)  Substitute "Lutheran Symbols" for "Magisterium . . . Magesterium" and he sounds like a hardline Missourian.

Clearly Archbishop Müller rejects the conceit of the cafeteria Catholic entirely.

In including Vatican II of course, that includes Lumen Gentium I believe, which would be a bit different than a "hardline Missouian" but perhaps more like the position that came out of Altenberg Thesis.

FrPeters

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Re: What does this mean? The new head of the Roman Catholic CDF & Lutherans
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2012, 08:14:19 AM »
Not to be a contrarian (we have enough of those on this forum) but could it be that Rome might come to the conclusion that Augusta is indeed a catholic confession while at the same time look around and wonder where there are actually Lutherans who believe, confess, teach, and practice according to this catholic confession?

Reminds me of a great friend in the Metro Diocese who remarked while working on the interim Eucharist sharing dialog with the LCA, we agree to commune but the LCA people won't use the chalice and the Episcopalians won't use the shot glasses so we cannot yet schedule a Eucharist...

Fr Larry Peters
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pr dtp

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Re: What does this mean? The new head of the Roman Catholic CDF & Lutherans
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2012, 05:35:27 PM »
Not to be a contrarian (we have enough of those on this forum) but could it be that Rome might come to the conclusion that Augusta is indeed a catholic confession while at the same time look around and wonder where there are actually Lutherans who believe, confess, teach, and practice according to this catholic confession?

Reminds me of a great friend in the Metro Diocese who remarked while working on the interim Eucharist sharing dialog with the LCA, we agree to commune but the LCA people won't use the chalice and the Episcopalians won't use the shot glasses so we cannot yet schedule a Eucharist...

Reminds me of the discussion I had with a friend who is a priest - we were talking about the sacrament of reconciliation/absolution, and the lack of people availing of its blessing in both our parishes.  We have more in common than we think... primarily because we deal with sinners who lack the understanding of the sacraments as blessings - and instead see them as duties.  (Which is contrary to our doctrine)


Brian Stoffregen

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Re: What does this mean? The new head of the Roman Catholic CDF & Lutherans
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2012, 06:01:49 PM »
Not to be a contrarian (we have enough of those on this forum) but could it be that Rome might come to the conclusion that Augusta is indeed a catholic confession while at the same time look around and wonder where there are actually Lutherans who believe, confess, teach, and practice according to this catholic confession?

Reminds me of a great friend in the Metro Diocese who remarked while working on the interim Eucharist sharing dialog with the LCA, we agree to commune but the LCA people won't use the chalice and the Episcopalians won't use the shot glasses so we cannot yet schedule a Eucharist...

Reminds me of the discussion I had with a friend who is a priest - we were talking about the sacrament of reconciliation/absolution, and the lack of people availing of its blessing in both our parishes.  We have more in common than we think... primarily because we deal with sinners who lack the understanding of the sacraments as blessings - and instead see them as duties.  (Which is contrary to our doctrine)


One pastor made a distinction this way, which I have also used. It is changing the language and thinking from "I have to do this" to "I get to do this." (This applies to more than just individual confession & forgiveness.)
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

pearson

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Re: What does this mean? The new head of the Roman Catholic CDF & Lutherans
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2012, 06:21:43 PM »

One pastor made a distinction this way, which I have also used. It is changing the language and thinking from "I have to do this" to "I get to do this."


Why isn't this considered to be just so much semantical sleight-of-hand?  If it turns out that you still "have to do this," it will make little difference what you may fool yourself into believing.

Tom Pearson

pr dtp

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Re: What does this mean? The new head of the Roman Catholic CDF & Lutherans
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2012, 06:27:58 PM »

One pastor made a distinction this way, which I have also used. It is changing the language and thinking from "I have to do this" to "I get to do this."


Why isn't this considered to be just so much semantical sleight-of-hand?  If it turns out that you still "have to do this," it will make little difference what you may fool yourself into believing.

Tom Pearson

have and "get to" are the same side of the coin.

But showing them the freedom, the relief, the joy that comes from hearing our sin is forgiven, and that even God is rejoicing over our being cleansed... that's a different game..