Author Topic: Abortion and Politics  (Read 76522 times)

Jim Thacker

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Re: Abortion and Politics
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2012, 09:50:55 PM »
Reading through this paritcular thread reminds me of how important forums can be when we are able to share resources and thoughts without debating in print. This thread has been a blessing. Just saying.
"Lord God, You have appointed me as a pastor in Your Church, but You see how unsuited I am to meet so great and difficult a task. If I had lacked Your help, I would have ruined everything long ago." (Luther's Sacristy Prayer)

Virgil

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Re: Abortion and Politics
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2012, 09:11:42 AM »
That reminds me . . . as confirmation classes begin, consider using the Life catechism with your confirmation students, as well.  A hard cover edition is available, or small insert editions for the back of a Small Catechism are available.

Thanks for the offer, but I'm going to order the hardcover version--good resource to have. Fight the good fight. Let's go and save some babies from Moloch.

Buckeye Deaconess: Any recap or excerpts available? Neither CPH nor Amazon lets you look inside. Thanks for recommending this.

You are most welcome.  It's a wonderful resource.  I may have an extra copy of the insert version left over from my display table at my district convention.  (Most of the supply I had on hand got taken.)  If you want to message me privately with your address, I can send one your way for you to review.  The hard copy is a nice resource, as well, but my signed copy stays with me . . . it was instrumental in my work of starting a pregnancy resource center where Lutheranism was practically unheard of.   :D

Kim

carlvehse

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Re: Abortion and Politics
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2012, 03:26:59 PM »
RogerMartim (#1) wrote on: August 27, 2012, 07:49:24 PM:

Quote
"I simply can't abide by the ignorance that is displayed by some politicians on this issue.

"Of course, I am referring to the recent remarks made by Congressman Todd Akin from Missouri in which he said that a woman's body shuts down during a 'legitimate' rape and her chances of becoming pregnant is minimized."

It would help increase your credibility, Roger, if you referred to the recent remarks ACTUALLY made by Congressman Todd Akin:
Quote
"It seems to me, first of all, from what I understand from doctors, that’s really rare. If it’s a legitimate rape, uh the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. But let’s assume that maybe that didn’t work or something. You know, I think there should be some punishment but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child."

So even in his statement Akin admitted that women who are raped can get pregnant. He also reiterated that in his apology. And it is clear from the context of the statements that Akin intended “legitimate” to mean “actual,” not “acceptable."   Furthermore, Todd Akin probably got the assertion he expressed on pregnancy from rape based on one or more of the following articles:

“The Indications for Induced Abortion: A Physician’s Perspective,” by Dr. Fred Mecklenburg in Abortion and Social Justice, an anthology compiled by Dr. Thomas W. Hilger in 1972. Dr. Mecklenburg was the former chairman of obstetrics at Inova Women’s Hospital in Falls Church, Va.

Handbook on Abortion, by Dr. John C. “Jack” Willke, founder of the National Right to Life Committee.

Willke also wrote an article, “Rape Pregnancies are rare,” in the Christian Life Resources, April 1999.  According to Dr. Willke:
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“Every woman is aware that stress and emotional factors can alter her menstrual cycle. To get and stay pregnant a woman’s body must produce a very sophisticated mix of hormones. Hormone production is controlled by a part of the brain that is easily influenced by emotions. There’s no greater emotional trauma that can be experienced by a woman than an assault rape. This can radically upset her possibility of ovulation, fertilization, implantation and even nurturing of a pregnancy.”

So, while one can certainly say that Akin should have worded his statement differently to avoid misunderstanding, it hardly can be described as "ignorance,"

George Neumayr explains it well in these excerpts from his article, “Cowed by Political Correctness“:
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Barack Obama hired as one of his top Department of Education officials a gay-rights activist named Kevin Jennings, who once glibly counseled a “15-year-old” student thought to have been statutorily raped by an older man: “I hope you knew to use a condom.”

Don’t expect Obama to receive any questions from the press about these views of his first “Safe Schools Czar.” No, outrage in this culture is restricted to those deemed unenlightened in the nuances of avant-garde morality. According to its porous scorecard, Christianity is bad for women while Islam is good for them. Pro-life countries receive scoldings from Hillary Clinton, while the one-child policy of China, which kills female infants, isn’t “second-guessed” by this administration, as Joe Biden put it on a visit.

Beneath all the hysterical extrapolations from his [Akin's] remark, which grew wilder and wilder as the days passed, lay that essential demand: approve of killing unborn children conceived under circumstances of rape or be deemed “anti-woman.”

This culture of hectoring explains why Mitt Romney rushed to the cameras upon hearing Akin’s remark to pronounce abortion in those cases “appropriate.” In a rotten culture, proof of one’s “civilized” bona fides comes from such shameless pandering.

An authentically conservative party would find Romney’s unprincipled position far more chilling than Akin’s gaffe. If unborn children gain or lose their right to life depending upon the circumstances of their conception, then the party has already conceded that that right doesn’t exist.
[Emphasis added]

Mike Gehlhausen

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Re: Abortion and Politics
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2012, 08:51:40 AM »

revjagow

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Re: Abortion and Politics
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2012, 10:38:19 AM »
Quote
Some of you may remember that earlier this year, Republicans shut me out of a hearing on contraception.

My recollection was that she was "shut out" of that hearing because her name was put forward at the last possible minute.  Then the Republicans on that committee were raked over the coals for not having any women present at the hearing.  Nice move, for politics, I suppose.

Meanwhile, over in the Senate, Mr. Akin sits on the Committee for Science and Technology.  News about his ignorance concerning how a woman's body works is what started the thread.

To me, these are two illustrations of why the way forward is not through Congress, or our elected leaders.  This is in God's hands.  I think that the more people that actually see an ultrasound and wonder at the complexity of what they see, the harder it will be to deny personhood to the unborn.

Remember that 2013 is a big anniversary year for the March for Life.  I'm going to see everyone here in D.C., at the end of January, right? 
Soli Deo Gloria!

Buckeye Deaconess

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Re: Abortion and Politics
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2012, 11:44:39 AM »
Remember that 2013 is a big anniversary year for the March for Life.  I'm going to see everyone here in D.C., at the end of January, right?

Let's hope!  Don't forget about the 2013 LCMS Life Conference to be held in conjunction with the March!  I'm hoping this is the year I finally make it to the March.

Dave Likeness

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Re: Abortion and Politics
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2012, 12:36:32 PM »
Rev. Jagow will be marching in the streets of
Washington D.C. before 2013.  He will join a
big march through that city, when the Washington
Nationals win the National League Pennant and
hopefully the World Series.

Bergs

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Re: Abortion and Politics
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2012, 11:30:59 PM »
A few months back at a recent work meeting I had a conversation with the CFO of a Planned Parenthood clinic, (an ELCA member in good standing I might note).  He was lamenting how their providers are way too liberal with clinic supplies.  There is a standing practice that a client of the clinic gets 30 doses of morning after pills, 3 months supply of birth control pills and 3 dozen condoms per visit.  He was arguing that several of the clients were already on Implanon or even had IUD's.  So there was no indication they needed any birth control methods but the providers didn't care, the standard practice is to give out all three each visit.  He  was trying to save some money for the clinic but the providers insisted this is their job to hand out the freebies.  This has been their long standing practice and they are not about to change.  He tried to point out that they were not practicing medicine according to standards by dispensing "medicine" when no "medicine" was indicated in the medical record.    The providers did not change their medical practice.

So really there is no excuse for Sandra Fluke to make a big fuss except a desperate cry for attention.  She can get her "medical" supplies at a PP clinic or she can have a friend go there and pick them up for her.  Doesn't she have a boyfriend who would be happy to purchase her medical supplies and even conduct a no-cost random effectiveness test now and then?  How does this young lady get an invitation to speak at a nationally televised program?   

Brian J. Bergs
Minneapolis, MN
But let me tell Thee that now, today, people are more persuaded than ever that they have perfect freedom, yet they have brought their freedom to us and laid it humbly at our feet. But that has been our doing.
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Charles_Austin

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Re: Abortion and Politics
« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2012, 02:59:36 AM »
Teaching people about birth control is a way to prevent abortions.

cssml

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Re: Abortion and Politics
« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2012, 03:20:52 AM »
Teaching people about birth control is a way to prevent abortions.

The scientific data would argue the exact opposite, but I don't suspect you will change your view.

  http://www.amazon.com/Adam-Eve-After-Pill-Revolution/dp/1586176277
  http://public.econ.duke.edu/~psarcidi/teensex.pdf
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Akerlof#Reproductive_technology_shock
 
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 03:40:18 AM by cssml »

Matt Hummel

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Re: Abortion and Politics
« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2012, 06:52:41 AM »
Teaching people about birth control is a way to prevent abortions.

And you know this how?

Please cite data that is non Guttmacher generated or funded.
Matt Hummel


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Charles_Austin

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Re: Abortion and Politics
« Reply #41 on: September 07, 2012, 07:07:37 AM »
If knowledge about contraception prevents ONE abortion, wouldn't that be good? Or are there hidden agendas in you "pro -life " people?

peter_speckhard

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Re: Abortion and Politics
« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2012, 09:06:38 AM »
If knowledge about contraception prevents ONE abortion, wouldn't that be good? Or are there hidden agendas in you "pro -life " people?
The point is that such education prevents an abortion in one instance but causes abortions in other instances because it encourages promiscuity and gets women/girls comfortable with going to abortion providers for counsel. All the evidence suggests that where contraception is taught early, the number of abortions goes up, not down.

Matt Hummel

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Re: Abortion and Politics
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2012, 09:38:04 AM »
If knowledge about contraception prevents ONE abortion, wouldn't that be good? Or are there hidden agendas in you "pro -life " people?

Well- Peter beat me to it.  But the point is the data show that even if the use of contraception prevents an abortion over here, it leads to multiple abortions over there.  So if there is a net increase in abortions, are you saying tha is a good thing?  And the PP business model is set up to get get young woman on contraception early, because they know the earleir they get them on contraception, the greater the likelihood they will get at least one, if not more, abortions out of them.

Ohhh! Hiden Agendas!  I got nothin' to hide.  My Church actually thinks about human sexuality as a gift and trust and has a coherent theology and pastoral practice to back it up.  We didn't cobble together something and vote on it after emotive declarations from people based on "What I feel."

And I note, you did answer my question.  You asked a rhetorical one.
Matt Hummel


“The chief purpose of life, for any of us, is to increase according to our capacity our knowledge of God by all means we have, and to be moved by it to praise and thanks.”

― J.R.R. Tolkien

Mike Gehlhausen

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Re: Abortion and Politics
« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2012, 09:48:58 AM »
Well- Peter beat me to it.  But the point is the data show that even if the use of contraception prevents an abortion over here, it leads to multiple abortions over there.  So if there is a net increase in abortions, are you saying tha is a good thing?  And the PP business model is set up to get get young woman on contraception early, because they know the earleir they get them on contraception, the greater the likelihood they will get at least one, if not more, abortions out of them.

I'm sorry, but that fails best construction.  I doubt Planned Parenthood sees abortions as a good thing to work toward even though they do not see them as a bad thing.

That's like saying oncologists want to get patients hooked on smoking so they can get lung cancer treatment out of them later.

Mike