Author Topic: EWTN  (Read 3548 times)

George Erdner

  • Guest
Re: EWTN
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2012, 01:24:04 PM »
The priest serving as MC when instructing the assisting priest in the logistics of the distribution, almost always added "most precious" to references to the body or blood.  Can/would/should Lutheran object to that language, probably not.  But it does seem precious in its manner.


I hope not, since I use such a reference just about every time I celebrate in the post-communion blessing -- following the example of the pastor who confirmed me.

Pax, Steven+
I have heard that usage in that context and it didn't bother me in the least. I've not said that "most precious" body or blood should never be used.  It might even be used repeatedly as in the dismissal of each chancel rail full of communicants.  Again nothing jarring there.
It was the use of the modifers "most precious" multiple times in course of about 5 to 10 sentences with a couple of references each time. It was like those awkward moments when to avoid the dreaded masculine pronoun "Jesus" or "God" replaces "he" or "his" in every instance in an extended passage--and we know what we think of that.  Nails on a chalkboard.

Exactly! I'd also note that I wasn't referring to the use of those terms in the worship service. I was referring to using them in everyday speech regardless of time, place, or venue.

Weedon

  • Guest
Re: EWTN
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2012, 01:29:50 PM »
Jim,

I'm not entirely sure that the second part of the Ave was current in Luther's day.  At least in his Personal Prayer Book it doesn't appear.  The Ave stops with: blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. 

Cssml,

Year ago Dr. Tighe sent me a book by Dix titled *A Detection of Aumbries* and the amazing thing he chronicles at first is how in the early centuries no particular reverence was done whatsoever to the Eucharistic elements outside the service - even when (as was quite common) people took them home or even carried them on their person to eat of them during the week.  It is striking how the Benediction of the Sacrament seemed to arise precisely in the Middle Ages and precisely at a time when the actual reception of the Supper was at its nadir. 

Jim_Krauser

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 1151
  • "The one who is righteous shall live by faith."
    • View Profile
Re: EWTN
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2012, 02:34:55 PM »
Jim,

I'm not entirely sure that the second part of the Ave was current in Luther's day.  At least in his Personal Prayer Book it doesn't appear.  The Ave stops with: blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.   
Quite so,  the invocation portion dates from after Luther and was endorsed by Trent.
Jim Krauser

Pastor-Grace Evang. Lutheran Church, North Bellmore, NY

Dave_Poedel

  • Guest
Re: EWTN
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2012, 12:33:06 AM »
As one who elevates the consecrated Body and Blood of Christ, and who genuflects after the consecration Verba (and one who reserves the Sacrament for use later in the week with shut-ins (and does recidt the Verba as declaratory, though some ask simply to receive as they know if comes from the altar) or the next celebration, I do draw the line on Exposition of the Eucharist, as it is specifically mentioned in our Confessions as an abuse.

I still encounter " receptionism", particularly at our Circuit Pastor Conferences, where most of my brothers simply regard the remaining elements mere bread and wine after the appointed " use" is completed.

We must acknowledge that our practice and theology of the Real Presence continues to be inconsistent amongst us.

When I introduced the use of an Aumbry (and I also accept Tabernacle as equivalent) as a place to reserve the consecrated Body and Blood of Christ in simple, dignified reverence (as opposed to a return to common use or as bird food), some of our members expressed wonder, but as I have consistently catechized a Real Presence that is not merely rhetorical, even my most polemical have respect that I am being consistent.

The lack of consistency amongst us is, in my judgement, the main reason why the retrieval of a Trent-era phrase affects us in different ways.  I am more troubled by the genesis of such descriptors from the Trent era to be more of a "stick in the eye" to Vatican II emphasizing Roman Catholics than to Lutherans, who in EWTN sensibilities are totally inconsequential and worthy of simple ignoring.

Brian Stoffregen

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 44463
  • ἐγὼ δὲ λέγω ὑμῖν, ἀγαπᾶτε τοὺς ἐχθροὺς ὑμῶν
    • View Profile
Re: EWTN
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2012, 01:40:55 AM »
As one who elevates the consecrated Body and Blood of Christ, and who genuflects after the consecration Verba (and one who reserves the Sacrament for use later in the week with shut-ins (and does recidt the Verba as declaratory, though some ask simply to receive as they know if comes from the altar) or the next celebration, I do draw the line on Exposition of the Eucharist, as it is specifically mentioned in our Confessions as an abuse.

I still encounter " receptionism", particularly at our Circuit Pastor Conferences, where most of my brothers simply regard the remaining elements mere bread and wine after the appointed " use" is completed.

We must acknowledge that our practice and theology of the Real Presence continues to be inconsistent amongst us.

When I introduced the use of an Aumbry (and I also accept Tabernacle as equivalent) as a place to reserve the consecrated Body and Blood of Christ in simple, dignified reverence (as opposed to a return to common use or as bird food), some of our members expressed wonder, but as I have consistently catechized a Real Presence that is not merely rhetorical, even my most polemical have respect that I am being consistent.

The lack of consistency amongst us is, in my judgement, the main reason why the retrieval of a Trent-era phrase affects us in different ways.  I am more troubled by the genesis of such descriptors from the Trent era to be more of a "stick in the eye" to Vatican II emphasizing Roman Catholics than to Lutherans, who in EWTN sensibilities are totally inconsequential and worthy of simple ignoring.


Having used homemade bread with no preservatives (rather than wafers,) reserving it for much more than a couple days is not a good idea. Even if it is Jesus' body, mold is not appetizing.
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

ReformedCatholic

  • ALPB Forum Regular
  • ***
  • Posts: 112
    • View Profile
Re: EWTN
« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2012, 09:50:18 AM »
For the past two Sunday's I have been celebrating The Mass at the Episcopal church around the corner from the congregation I serve as pastor. This is because the supply priest is sick and in the summer it is difficult to find another priest on short notice. Our Sunday Liturgies are spaced only 45 mins apart and so time is tight. Accommodations were requested of both congregations.
The accommodation I requested and was granted at the Episcopal congregation was that the distribution of the Sacrament be ambulatory....well, you could see how uncomfortable the congregation was with this type of distribution. They are accustomed to kneeling at the altar rail and for the dismissal of the whole before the next group of communicants take their places. I really appreciate this piety in their humble response in receiving the Most Precious Body and Blood of Jesus.
I myself, still find it uneasy to face the East and the BCP jumps around too much and the Celebrant unfamiliar needs an AM to change the pages and point to the prayers. Last week I was assisted by a sub-deacon, yesterday...well, not so fortunate.

D. Engebretson

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 5004
    • View Profile
Re: EWTN
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2012, 11:39:52 AM »
For the past two Sunday's I have been celebrating The Mass at the Episcopal church around the corner from the congregation I serve as pastor. This is because the supply priest is sick and in the summer it is difficult to find another priest on short notice. Our Sunday Liturgies are spaced only 45 mins apart and so time is tight. Accommodations were requested of both congregations.
The accommodation I requested and was granted at the Episcopal congregation was that the distribution of the Sacrament be ambulatory....well, you could see how uncomfortable the congregation was with this type of distribution. They are accustomed to kneeling at the altar rail and for the dismissal of the whole before the next group of communicants take their places. I really appreciate this piety in their humble response in receiving the Most Precious Body and Blood of Jesus.
I myself, still find it uneasy to face the East and the BCP jumps around too much and the Celebrant unfamiliar needs an AM to change the pages and point to the prayers. Last week I was assisted by a sub-deacon, yesterday...well, not so fortunate.

Having sat through numerous chapel services at Nashotah House, an Anglo-Catholic institution if there ever was one, I was similarly impressed by the piety evident at the Eucharist.  As one trying to follow along in the BCP and the Hymnal, I have also found the experience more taxing than the single liturgy-hymn arrangement of the typical Lutheran hymnal.  Since I am at Nashotah only once or twice a year, I haven't been able to become completely familiar with the worship.  Nevertheless, I sometimes envy the piety and reverence they exhibit in worship there, the equivalent of which I too seldom see in a Lutheran sanctuary today. 
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

A Catholic Lutheran

  • Guest
Re: EWTN
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2012, 12:18:55 PM »
Pr. Engebretson...  I am the "Ecumenical Officer" for my Synod and I too have trouble at even the average Episcopalian liturgy.  The local Episcopal parish in Hurricane, has the 1979 BCP, the Hymnal, and then TWO additional hymnal suppliments.  So you're flipping around for the Liturgy in the BCP, then searching for music in the Hymnal, or "Lift Every Voice and Sing," or the other one whose title escapes me at the moment.

The Episcopalians seem to do OK with it...  It's a large and flourishing parish.  But I...ironically a bibliophile even... always have trouble keeping up.

Pax Christi;
Pr. Jerry Kliner, STS

George Erdner

  • Guest
Re: EWTN
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2012, 01:18:46 PM »
That's why my congregation projects the material from all the different books onto a screen on the wall, to make it easier on folks.
 
Let the knee-jerk objections to technology begin!
 

ReformedCatholic

  • ALPB Forum Regular
  • ***
  • Posts: 112
    • View Profile
Re: EWTN
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2012, 05:44:47 PM »
Did ya feel the kick George ?

OUCH