Poll

Will you eat at Chick-fil-A today?

Yes
21 (32.8%)
No
14 (21.9%)
I would, but there is not a location near me.
29 (45.3%)

Total Members Voted: 42

Author Topic: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day  (Read 9592 times)

Gary Hatcher

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Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
« Reply #120 on: August 03, 2012, 11:29:00 AM »
Pastor Hatcher writes:
Seriously?  I can see the conversation, "Let's give an interview on the chance that the media, politicians, and homosexual activists will make a big deal out of it and we'll sell a bunch more chicken."  Let's make sure that those in the media, politicians and the homosexual activists bear no responsibility for their actions, it's all those nasty Christians who just can't accept what we want.

I comment:
There would have been - in my imagined scenario - no reference to "nasty Christians." It would be a simple focus on a way to get the name of the Chikn place in the news and stir up some business. And it wouldn't be - in my imagined scenario - a "chance"; the plotters would be rather confident that their device would work.
And if my imagined scenario were anywhere close to true, guess who the dupes and patsies are? 1. The pro-gay folks who got all twisted about some CEO's remarks; and 2. Those who thought they were defending "traditional" marriage by eating a particular product.
Charles, I understand that you imagined it.  I just was wondering what possible good it serves to post this imagining.  The media, the politicians and some in the glbt et al community overreacted and your imaginings give the impression of bailing them out by blaming the victim.
Gary Hatcher STS,
Pastor St. Paul & First Lutheran Churches
Garnavillo & McGregor, IA

David Garner

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Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
« Reply #121 on: August 03, 2012, 12:33:49 PM »
I would have, but it was the first day of the Dormition Fast.  That didn't stop some of my Orthodox friends, but I decided political showcasing was less important than keeping the fast. 

I'll still eat at Chick-fil-A though.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

Matt Hummel

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Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
« Reply #122 on: August 03, 2012, 01:12:51 PM »
You gotta love the hypocrisy of what he does, all the while saying "I just can't stand the hate." 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUk-5R14jE0

kudos to his "victim" for maintaining her composure in the face of his bullying and hate speech.

Drat- I had wanted to be the first to post the clip here to say the reason I participated in Wednesday's festivities is that I was sick and tired of self-important little moral gauleiters like this, with no real courage who put the boot in when they think they can get away with it and then sit back to receive moral acclamation.  He sounded exactly like the voices of the self-righteous advocates for sexual equality,, etc. at any ELCA Synod Assembly.  Looks like Mr. Smith paid a price for his actions.  Good on Vante and its CEO.  And what, pray tell, is the business with announcing his heterosexuality?  One wonders if it's like senses of humor.  Have you ever met anyone who told you in the first 30 seconds of meeting that they were funny who actually was?
Matt Hummel


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Dave Benke

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Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
« Reply #123 on: August 03, 2012, 01:17:11 PM »
You gotta love the hypocrisy of what he does, all the while saying "I just can't stand the hate." 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUk-5R14jE0

kudos to his "victim" for maintaining her composure in the face of his bullying and hate speech.

Drat- I had wanted to be the first to post the clip here to say the reason I participated in Wednesday's festivities is that I was sick and tired of self-important little moral gauleiters like this, with no real courage who put the boot in when they think they can get away with it and then sit back to receive moral acclamation.  He sounded exactly like the voices of the self-righteous advocates for sexual equality,, etc. at any ELCA Synod Assembly.  Looks like Mr. Smith paid a price for his actions.  Good on Vante and its CEO.  And what, pray tell, is the business with announcing his heterosexuality?  One wonders if it's like senses of humor.  Have you ever met anyone who told you in the first 30 seconds of meeting that they were funny who actually was?

"Gauleiter" = word of the week.  Nice.  "Moral gauleiter" = doubly nice.

Dave Benke

Keith Falk

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Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
« Reply #124 on: August 03, 2012, 03:37:25 PM »
I will simply remind you - as I believe it was Bergs earlier who also did - who started this whole mess?  Think hard.  It wasn't the "anti-gay" "Christian right" "mean-spirited/hateful" supporters of traditional marriage.  It was those revisionists who claim to espouse such tremendous tolerance for all points of view.

And quite frankly, I'm deeply offended by your insistence that anyone who stands up for a man who espoused a traditional view of marriage as "anti-gay."  Your veiled disgust at Rev. Falk and the youth group is equally offensive and - dare I say it? - bully behavior.

1)  I am aware who started this - and I do recognize it was the supporters of tolerance for gays.  And I'm not considered by anyone who knows me a revisionist - probably quite the opposite.  I spent many years in advertising and television and I know a bit about perception - which often dictates reality.  Do I think some people were out there for  free speech - yeah, some.  But do I think that the gay issue motivated them - yes, I do.  Now if that's poor construction, sorry - but I did listen to interviews of people going in and out of C-A-F and sure sounded like that to me.   

2)  It's not veiled disgust -- frankly I did find the whole thing off-putting -- and it wasn't meant to be bullying.  My word - with some of the stuff written on this site you think that's bullying!!  I take great interest in our youth group and I simply would be offended to have had them take part in yesterday's event - because of the perceived intolerance of the event.


All I wrote is that I had a hunch as to why a person donated Chick-Fil-A on that day.  The youth group wasn't told, "Hey, we're having Chick-Fil-A to support them!", nor was it implied.  All was said that someone donated Chick-Fil-A for the evening.  Period.  It has happened before (that Chick-Fil-A was donated) and it was welcomed that evening.  No need to read more into it than actually happened.
Rev. Keith Falk, STS

RogerMartim

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Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
« Reply #125 on: August 03, 2012, 05:38:19 PM »
What's so complicated by that? The Deaconess has said that she has "more in common as an LCMS Lutheran with Southern Baptists than I do the ELCA..." She's made it clear. I just pointed out that this is inconsistent with Lutheran theology. The two have nothing in common. I think I explained that quite clearly in the previous post at the variances.

So then where do you stand on the issue of abortion and homosexuality, Mr. Martim?  It is on these issues that I made my point above.  That is where inconsistent theology comes into play.  The Catholics have a different view of the Lord's Supper than we do . . . do you have the same level of disdain towards them as you seem to have for those who claim to be "born again"?

I am pretty much of the anti-abortion sentiment and on the issue of homosexuality, I find that it is too much of a complicated subject to relegate it to a Chic-Fil-A (I think I got it right this time, Mr. Erdner) love-in.

As for the doctrinal differences in the Real Presence, as Lutherans we should feel much more of an affinity to the Roman Catholic's position of Transubstantiation than to the position of that it is only a symbol espoused by most Protestants. It's probably more of a matter of semantics. As for the "born again" position, we Lutherans are indeed born again which takes place at our baptism. But there is a very huge and gaping hole in the understanding of what it is to be born again by a large segment of our Protestant brothers and sisters. Lutherans simply do not subscribe to the theology behind "born again"ism in the same way that Baptists, Evangelicals and Fundamentalists do.

Wallenstein

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Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
« Reply #126 on: August 03, 2012, 06:32:26 PM »
We now know for sure the morals of the owners of "mainstream" media.  Such morals do not align with confessional Lutheran theology:


http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/mainstream-media-blacks-out-chick-fil-story_649234.html


Record sales!  I can imagine all the other retailers across the country quietly yearning to imitate the success of Chick-fil-A.  "Morality sells!"  Perhaps this is the start of an emerging trend?

 :)

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
« Reply #127 on: August 03, 2012, 06:50:59 PM »
We now know for sure the morals of the owners of "mainstream" media.  Such morals do not align with confessional Lutheran theology:


I've been thinking that there are two different dichotomies that are often confused.


There are differences between being Christian and being non-Christian (or if you wish, Christian theology and non-Christian theology).


There are differences between being moral and being immoral.


Many religious adherents (Christian and non-Christian) lead moral lives. There can be individuals who could ace a test on Christian theology, but whose lives would fall in the immoral side.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

passerby

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Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
« Reply #128 on: August 03, 2012, 07:23:33 PM »
Dave Benke

How would you publicly show your support for Chick-Fil-A President, Dan Cathy?  Not asking to be contentious, and if you think my question is inappropriate, no response is necessary.

Linda

No contention taken.  The average bear is just going to do what the rest are doing and buy a chicken sandwich.  The other option would be to separate from the average bears and organize something else that stated why you were doing what you were doing and what it was and wasn't.  But that wouldn't be easy. 

Or you could have a churchly letter thing, even while having your sandwich and eating it too, stating (with others) why you ate that chicken, and that you're not a gay-hater/baiter even though you stand on the side of marriage as the lifelong union of one man and one woman.

Dave Benke

But you're in NYC! Did anyone dare even show up yesterday at the Chick-fil-A at NYU right in the heart of Greenwich Village? In a heavily evangelical area like the South, I get that a mob of people showing up might suggest to gays that there is anti-gay sentiment--I have heard some of that crowd did make anti-gay remarks. But in NYC? If anyone said anything like that they'd be mobbed!

For the record....the sole Chick-fil-a in NYC is indeed located at NYU as the poster stated, BUT what he didn't say was that all NYer's knew it was CLOSED FOR THE SUMMER !!!!

Plus, for those of us in the outer boroughs, the cost in time and possibly transit in getting over the village would be prohibitive.  For me it would take maybe an hour plus each way, and if I had to drive it would cost me (although I have EZ pass) $9 in tolls and about $30 for parking.  So it would be slow and painful.  And then I'd have gotten there and found out it was closed.  Which happens a lot to NYers, with their spouses or special others, who are going, "Wonderful - so we just spent $40 and three hours and what do we have?  We have plenty of nothing."  And then the silent ride home, and the hearing of "Why couldn't we just have gone to Pio Pio." 

Because the great and #1 chicken place in NY is Pio Pio, which is Peruvian, and located in its #1 spot (it has a few others) around 85th and Northern Blvd. in what used to be called Corona, but now probably has one of those new names, CitiField West or something like that. 

Today's Times article on this topic focused on the Southern food nature of Cathy and his enterprise, and highlighted, as it was going to do, a straight young man who frequents Chick-Fil-A because of the way it does chicken, even though his best buddy produces gay pornography, from whom the straight guy got permission to feed on Chick-Fil-A even though it was protest day.  And the lazy, crazy, hazy days of summer continue.

Dave Benke

As an alumni of NYU I should be deprived of my id card for forgetting that even summer school is closed now. I blame it on the heat.

passerby

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Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
« Reply #129 on: August 03, 2012, 07:27:26 PM »
There really must be a full moon out. In addition to the chikn idiocies, now the group starts turning on a fellow Lutheran who happens to have a tv show and travels around the world and makes videos supporting ELCA missions. Nice. Really nice.
Going out now, to pick some garlic so I can ward off the other weird and crazy things that start roaming the earth when there is a full moon.
Good grief!

Luther Seminary could do better than having Steves for a vocations lecture, that's all I was saying. He may also be a good guy supporting the ELCA missions, etc.

Jim_Krauser

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Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
« Reply #130 on: August 03, 2012, 08:50:20 PM »
What's so complicated by that? The Deaconess has said that she has "more in common as an LCMS Lutheran with Southern Baptists than I do the ELCA..." She's made it clear. I just pointed out that this is inconsistent with Lutheran theology. The two have nothing in common. I think I explained that quite clearly in the previous post at the variances.

So then where do you stand on the issue of abortion and homosexuality, Mr. Martim?  It is on these issues that I made my point above.  That is where inconsistent theology comes into play.  The Catholics have a different view of the Lord's Supper than we do . . . do you have the same level of disdain towards them as you seem to have for those who claim to be "born again"?

I am pretty much of the anti-abortion sentiment and on the issue of homosexuality, I find that it is too much of a complicated subject to relegate it to a Chic-Fil-A (I think I got it right this time, Mr. Erdner) love-in.

As for the doctrinal differences in the Real Presence, as Lutherans we should feel much more of an affinity to the Roman Catholic's position of Transubstantiation than to the position of that it is only a symbol espoused by most Protestants. It's probably more of a matter of semantics. As for the "born again" position, we Lutherans are indeed born again which takes place at our baptism. But there is a very huge and gaping hole in the understanding of what it is to be born again by a large segment of our Protestant brothers and sisters. Lutherans simply do not subscribe to the theology behind "born again"ism in the same way that Baptists, Evangelicals and Fundamentalists do.
Off topic alert: 
While we may have similar and perhaps compatable (though that could be argued) positions regarding the presence of Christ in the Eucharist with the Roman Church, our understanding of it as a means of Grace is quite different.  The Roman Church teaches that benefits can be received from the consecrated host without actually eating it.  Lutherans might agree that Christ is present in the bread present in the ciborium but no Lutheran should acknowledge that there is any benefit to be had from it apart from eating (and drinking), nor is the sacrament to be "adored" apart from reception. 
Jim Krauser

Pastor-Grace Evang. Lutheran Church, North Bellmore, NY

Buckeye Deaconess

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Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
« Reply #131 on: August 03, 2012, 09:41:35 PM »
Off topic alert: 
While we may have similar and perhaps compatable (though that could be argued) positions regarding the presence of Christ in the Eucharist with the Roman Church, our understanding of it as a means of Grace is quite different.  The Roman Church teaches that benefits can be received from the consecrated host without actually eating it.  Lutherans might agree that Christ is present in the bread present in the ciborium but no Lutheran should acknowledge that there is any benefit to be had from it apart from eating (and drinking), nor is the sacrament to be "adored" apart from reception.

Thanks.  I thought this was an odd line of argumentation and chose not to engage any further on the topic (being doubtful it would get anywhere).  Thanks for making this point.

Chuck

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Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
« Reply #132 on: August 03, 2012, 10:24:58 PM »
KFC weighs in...
(Satire...don't take it seriously)
Chuck Ruthroff

I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it. —George Bernard Shaw

Matt Hummel

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Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
« Reply #133 on: August 04, 2012, 08:28:06 AM »
Off topic alert: 
While we may have similar and perhaps compatable (though that could be argued) positions regarding the presence of Christ in the Eucharist with the Roman Church, our understanding of it as a means of Grace is quite different.  The Roman Church teaches that benefits can be received from the consecrated host without actually eating it.  Lutherans might agree that Christ is present in the bread present in the ciborium but no Lutheran should acknowledge that there is any benefit to be had from it apart from eating (and drinking), nor is the sacrament to be "adored" apart from reception.

Interesting use of quotations.  What are your thoughts on those who comment on/refer to homosexual "marriage?"
Matt Hummel


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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
« Reply #134 on: August 04, 2012, 11:05:39 AM »
Off topic alert: 
While we may have similar and perhaps compatable (though that could be argued) positions regarding the presence of Christ in the Eucharist with the Roman Church, our understanding of it as a means of Grace is quite different.  The Roman Church teaches that benefits can be received from the consecrated host without actually eating it.  Lutherans might agree that Christ is present in the bread present in the ciborium but no Lutheran should acknowledge that there is any benefit to be had from it apart from eating (and drinking), nor is the sacrament to be "adored" apart from reception.

Interesting use of quotations.  What are your thoughts on those who comment on/refer to homosexual "marriage?"


My thoughts are that it fits most of the dictionary definitions of "marriage" (given below).

1 the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife.
     • a similar long-term relationship between partners of the same sex.
     • a relationship between married people or the period for which it lasts : a happy marriage | the children from his first marriage.
     • figurative a combination or mixture of two or more elements : a marriage of jazz, pop, blues, and gospel.
2 (in pinochle and other card games) a combination of a king and queen of the same suit.


Some states have legal same-gender "marriages". Thus there is the formal union that is recognized by law (and there are same-gender couples who use "husband" and "wife" for each other).


The first sub-definition under 1 would apply even in states where same-gender "marriages" are not legal.


If the word "marriage" can be used of styles of music, why not also for the relationship of same-gendered people?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2012, 11:11:42 AM by Brian Stoffregen »
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]