Author Topic: Megadeth Bassist to be an LCMS pastor thanks to SMP  (Read 16439 times)

JoshOsbun

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Jay

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Re: Megadeth Bassist to be an LCMS pastor thanks to SMP
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2012, 06:29:22 PM »
Great story!  Dave Mustaine has stopped drinking and talks about his Christian faith periodically during interviews as well.  Megadeth have come a long way.

Also, the bassist for the 70's rock group Kansas became a priest in the Anglican Mission in America awhile back.

Coach-Rev

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Re: Megadeth Bassist to be an LCMS pastor thanks to SMP
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2012, 06:42:13 PM »
There's a great story about one of the musicians from "Korn" too if I recall correctly, but I'd have to search for the story first.  It is interesting that once in a while, you see a really powerful testimony come from someone who has gotten out of such a lifestyle and really made  a turnaround.

Dave_Poedel

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Re: Megadeth Bassist to be an LCMS pastor thanks to SMP
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2012, 01:52:12 AM »
Outstanding news from one of my neighbors here in the metro Phoenix area, and of course I find out about it on a wonderful pan-Lutheran forum moderated in California and my native Wisconsin...nice.  I need to get out more.

So much for the backward and stodgy LCMS, NALC, ACNA and other conservative Churches being out of touch and attractive only to80+ year old Midwesterners who grew up in them.  May God receive ALL of the glory and praise for these amazing stories. 

All I know is that their music gives me a throbbing headache (but then again, so do the repetitious ad nauseum "praise choruses"so many love to sing), but I know without much doubt that God is using said music to reach some people, though not as many as 25-30 years ago.

Thanks for posting the article

Dave Benke

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Re: Megadeth Bassist to be an LCMS pastor thanks to SMP
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2012, 08:03:37 AM »
And another very positive and nationally presented view of the LC-MS Specialized Ministry Pastor (SMP) program.  Pr. Michael Staneck's ordination/ installation on Long Island was one of the highlights of 2011 for me and many others.  The training received in SMP leads to pastors of the Church who are able proclaimers and incarnational presenters of God's truth and love in Christ.  In pastoral student Mustaine's case, the attraction and sweep of the program are available for the world to hear as a terminus ad quem of his own testimony.

I wonder if pastoral student Mustaine will be around in February when a bunch of people of Missouri Synod stripe will be down there in Phoenix for the "Best Practices" event and other golfing opportunities?

Dave Benke
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Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Megadeth Bassist to be an LCMS pastor thanks to SMP
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2012, 08:19:10 AM »
It would be interesting to see you golfing with Dave Mustaine, President Benke. I doubt that he'll be there or that he'll be ordained as a pastor in the LCMS.

Don Kirchner

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Dave Benke

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Re: Megadeth Bassist to be an LCMS pastor thanks to SMP
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2012, 08:57:22 AM »
Ha!  I'd like to show him a little length off the tee and a few of my keyboard moves.  The length off the tee would be more impressive than the keyboard moves.  I don't know why Mr. Mustaine is considered to be headed toward non-completion of the SMP program, Don.  Nothing in the article gave me that impression.  I'll ask him how he thinks it will go on the 17th hole, with our match all even, just to mess with his head.  Then I birdie 18, he hits it out of bounds, and I become the new keyboard guy for MegaLife, the old bald guy in the purple shirt.   "Who is that?" they'll ask.  "MegaBishop," will be the reply.

Interesting sub-unit with regard to the SMP, which is viewed so favorably in the article referenced, and very favorably by any number of folks in the LC-MS, on the one hand.  On the other hand, there's a Steadfast article indicating from the author's hearing/perspective at the Symposium this week that Larry Rast, new sem president, is not favorable to SMP at Ft. Wayne. 

So are we going to have the two seminaries duking it out over SMP, with sides being taken on the convention floor?  My answer is a tentative "yes," although I am not at all sure about the Larry Rast commentary, having spoken with him about SMP recently myself.  I say "yes" because we need something to fight about, to claim turf about, to take enormous bundles of our time and energy.  We are Missouri and this is what we do.

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DeHall

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Re: Megadeth Bassist to be an LCMS pastor thanks to SMP
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2012, 09:17:47 AM »
Ha!  I'd like to show him a little length off the tee and a few of my keyboard moves.  The length off the tee would be more impressive than the keyboard moves.  I don't know why Mr. Mustaine is considered to be headed toward non-completion of the SMP program, Don.  Nothing in the article gave me that impression.  I'll ask him how he thinks it will go on the 17th hole, with our match all even, just to mess with his head.  Then I birdie 18, he hits it out of bounds, and I become the new keyboard guy for MegaLife, the old bald guy in the purple shirt.   "Who is that?" they'll ask.  "MegaBishop," will be the reply.

Interesting sub-unit with regard to the SMP, which is viewed so favorably in the article referenced, and very favorably by any number of folks in the LC-MS, on the one hand.  On the other hand, there's a Steadfast article indicating from the author's hearing/perspective at the Symposium this week that Larry Rast, new sem president, is not favorable to SMP at Ft. Wayne. 

So are we going to have the two seminaries duking it out over SMP, with sides being taken on the convention floor?  My answer is a tentative "yes," although I am not at all sure about the Larry Rast commentary, having spoken with him about SMP recently myself.  I say "yes" because we need something to fight about, to claim turf about, to take enormous bundles of our time and energy.  We are Missouri and this is what we do.

Dave Benke

The SMP student is the bassist from Megadeth, David Ellefson, not Dave Mustaine.

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Re: Megadeth Bassist to be an LCMS pastor thanks to SMP
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2012, 09:57:46 AM »
Oops.  My bad.  Ellefson is a far better Lutheran name anyway, although tinged with the ALC birth-heritage.

Dave Benke

I'm staying with MegaBishop, though.
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DeHall

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Re: Megadeth Bassist to be an LCMS pastor thanks to SMP
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2012, 11:18:42 AM »
I thought SMP was supposed to help out struggling congregations who couldn't afford a full-time pastor.  This congregation already has a full-time pastor.  In addition to that, they just spent a ton of money buying a new facility.

I thought SMP was supposed to help out those students who were in a position where they could not uproot their family because they had to work a second job since the call they would be receiving would likely be a worker-priest scenario.  The founder of an internationally renowned band doesn't quite fit that mold.

I didn't post this story because it's a positive thing.  This is wrong on so many different levels.  It's an abuse of the SMP system.  It's thumbing the nose at pastoral formation.  It's a mockery of the pastoral office.

It's my understanding that pastors from the SMP program must serve under another pastor who is not an SMP pastor, and only then in a "specific ministry context".   In Dave Ellefson's case, he would be working under the pastor of Shepherd of the Desert, specifically in the Mega Life outreach ministry. 

That seems to meet the definition of SMP as I know it - I didn't see anything in the requirements about the ability of the church to pay a full-time pastor, or that the candidate could not uproot their family.    I am open to correction here, however.

George Erdner

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Re: Megadeth Bassist to be an LCMS pastor thanks to SMP
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2012, 11:22:39 AM »
I thought SMP was supposed to help out struggling congregations who couldn't afford a full-time pastor.  This congregation already has a full-time pastor.  In addition to that, they just spent a ton of money buying a new facility.

I thought SMP was supposed to help out those students who were in a position where they could not uproot their family because they had to work a second job since the call they would be receiving would likely be a worker-priest scenario.  The founder of an internationally renowned band doesn't quite fit that mold.

I didn't post this story because it's a positive thing.  This is wrong on so many different levels.  It's an abuse of the SMP system.  It's thumbing the nose at pastoral formation.  It's a mockery of the pastoral office.

According to what I've read and been told about SMP, and equivalent ELCA program, TEEM, the benefits you listed are among the intentions of the programs. However, they are not the only benefits and purposes of the programs.

Matt Staneck

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Re: Megadeth Bassist to be an LCMS pastor thanks to SMP
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2012, 11:29:51 AM »
I'm open to correction as well...

What Pr. Osbun is referring to is at the convention when SMP was passed part of the "pitch," if you will, was that for congregations that can't afford a full-time pastor (various reasons for this), and for those who otherwise literally cannot uproot, this would be a very beneficial program.

I am not aware that any official SMP language indicated those would be the only reasons for such a program.  Although we may find the gaudy life of a rockstar "less than" worker-priest, he is operating in a bi-vocational setting, and I for one can't wait for him to have discussions about what that thick blue book is that he has with him on the tour buses.  Because contrary to much maligning of the program it is a rigorous classwork load.  And while I can't speak for Ft. Wayne, I can for St. Louis and the professors take it seriously and expect a lot out of their students.  And oh yeah, the students are in "part-time" ministry, which is really closer to full-time, while also holding down other full-time jobs to provide for their family's. 

So while there are legitimate critiques, and the students are open about that amongst themselves and with Dr. Wollenberg and their professors, it is an illegitimate critique to ridicule the lack of so-called "real preparation" for ministry.

M. Staneck
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iowakatie1981

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Re: Megadeth Bassist to be an LCMS pastor thanks to SMP
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2012, 11:41:26 AM »
Just one comment in the midst of this LCMS discussion - the ELCA has a similar program, TEEM, as well as non-TEEM-but-still-mostly-online programs at some of the seminaries. 

Some days this really frustrates me - they should be on-campus, darnit!  If this is really a call from God, take it seriously!!  and so on... - then I figured out that mostly it's about my stuff, not theirs.  For me, anyway, it tends to be one of those "Peter moments" - "We have left everything to follow you - what then will there be for us?"  Which is something I need to confess as sinful, and then hear Jesus say, "Everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life." 

Kurt Weinelt

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Re: Megadeth Bassist to be an LCMS pastor thanks to SMP
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2012, 11:41:54 AM »
I'm new the LCMS, an ELCA exile, blissfully ignorant of all the church politics involved in SMP (after the turmoil of being in an ELCA congregation council in the 1990s-2000s, I am enjoying my blissful ignorance of church politics, thank you). We have three SMP seminarians in our congregation (an educator retired from financial services, a church musician, and a firefighter), and it has been a great experience for us. I also enjoy neither heavy metal nor contemporary worship. That being said, this seems like a really positive development in that Ellefsen has the opportunity to reach the unchurched in a segment of society where the church can be very distant. It doesn't seem like a mockery of the pastoral office at all to me, but an opportunity to witness. But then again, I have no ties whatsoever to the LCMS establishment having been an UCLA/LCA/ELCA member for 51 years prior to 2009.
Kurt
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Dave Benke

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Re: Megadeth Bassist to be an LCMS pastor thanks to SMP
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2012, 11:43:31 AM »
DeHall, you are correct in your understanding in the points you mention.
a) there is no "couldn't afford full-time pastor" exclusive clause in the rubrics of the SMP program. All SMP students have a supervising pastor.  For some, it's a pastor loci; for others, it's a neighboring pastor. 
b) the context of the parish assignment is the fundamental rationale for not moving, not exclusively or automatically the worker-priest/can't leave job scenario. 
As you indicate, the situation referenced fits the definition of "specific ministry" pastoral formation. 

The greater conversation is what is entailed in pastoral formation and what mocks or does not mock the office of the public ministry of the Gospel.  If Mr. Ellefson were to have enrolled as a student in the on-campus seminary at St. Louis, would he be formed more completely/competently and not be engaged in a mockery of the pastoral office?  Why or why not?  In what way are his SMP studies/enrollment a mockery of the pastoral office?  The ad hominem argumentation, such as "doesn't feel like putting in the effort" is not only weak but I think would be viewed by the student as offensive.  Is "effort" only put in by residential students?  Is the "effort" of non-residential students downgraded because they are not residents?

The SMP candidate and already ordained pastor under my supervision are in my examination and experience to date competently formed and are enhancers, not mockers, of the pastoral office.  One serves under a supervising pastor at the congregation to which he has been called and installed; the other is in a small parish under supervision by a pastor not on site.  One is the father of Matt Staneck.

Kurt Weinelt and Q, thanks for your words, which I think represent much to most of the LC-MS.


Dave Benke
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