Author Topic: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?  (Read 32596 times)

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #210 on: October 24, 2010, 06:33:39 PM »

So, in your opinion it is better to save the life of the child than the mother, because the abortion will cause the mother to be full of guilt and shame.

Incredible, Brian, simply incredible.  And, alas, completely in character.

Sister Kim, while Charles may label it "a cheap shot," to me you are calling a thing what it is.

Pax et bonum, Steven+
The Rev. Steven Paul Tibbetts, STS
Pastor Zip's Blog

ptmccain

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #211 on: October 24, 2010, 06:35:45 PM »
Thank you Steven. My words failed. Your's did not

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #212 on: October 24, 2010, 06:43:21 PM »
For anyone who is interested, allow me to share how I moved from...


Thank you, Sister.

Pax, Steven+

The Rev. Steven Paul Tibbetts, STS
Pastor Zip's Blog

Lutheranistic

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #213 on: October 24, 2010, 07:02:48 PM »
So somebody in the ELCA that is chiming in here please, please, please tell me if you would join a pro-life organization that was geared only to ELCA members?
Ok, Kim, I'll bite. As a  20 plus-year (albeit former) ELCA clergy spouse, there is nothing about Lutherans for Life that would preclude me joining. If that were an issue in which I decided to invest time, talent or dollars, (and as an adoptee I believe it is), the importance of the issue would outweigh any doctrinal difference I would have with other members.
So...I'll repost this in an attempt to get us back on track. And then, to possibly derail it further:

I was born of an unmarried woman and adopted through Lutheran Social Service in 1953.
My wife and I adopted two children in in 1999 and 2000 through LSS.
Anyone who wants to see pictures of the kids can "friend" me on Facebook, and anyone who thinks any of the three of us would have been better off disposed of as "medical waste" can disregard the pictures and post #95. For some of us, this is very, very personal.

LutherMan

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #214 on: October 24, 2010, 07:07:51 PM »
So somebody in the ELCA that is chiming in here please, please, please tell me if you would join a pro-life organization that was geared only to ELCA members?
Ok, Kim, I'll bite. As a  20 plus-year (albeit former) ELCA clergy spouse, there is nothing about Lutherans for Life that would preclude me joining. If that were an issue in which I decided to invest time, talent or dollars, (and as an adoptee I believe it is), the importance of the issue would outweigh any doctrinal difference I would have with other members.
So...I'll repost this in an attempt to get us back on track. And then, to possibly derail it further:

I was born of an unmarried woman and adopted through Lutheran Social Service in 1953.
My wife and I adopted two children in in 1999 and 2000 through LSS.
Anyone who wants to see pictures of the kids can "friend" me on Facebook, and anyone who thinks any of the three of us would have been better off disposed of as "medical waste" can disregard the pictures and post #95. For some of us, this is very, very personal.
You are a dear and valued brother-in-Christ.  I don't have a dog in this hunt, except for Jesus' Little Lambs, whom are all brothers and sisters in Christ.
The Lord be with you, brother!
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 07:09:46 PM by LutherMan »

LutherMan

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"I Am Jesus' Little Lamb"
« Reply #215 on: October 24, 2010, 07:14:12 PM »
"I Am Jesus' Little Lamb"
by Henrietta L. von Hayn, 1724-1782

1. I am Jesus' little lamb,
Ever glad at heart I am;
For my Shepherd gently guides me,
Knows my need, and well provides me,
Loves me every day the same,
Even calls me by my name.

2. Day by day, at home, away,
Jesus is my Staff and Stay.
When I hunger, Jesus feeds me,
Into pleasant pastures leads me;
When I thirst, He bids me go
Where the quiet waters flow.

3. Who so happy as I am,
Even now the Shepherd's lamb?
And when my short life is ended,
By His angel host attended,
He shall fold me to His breast,
There within His arms to rest.

Hymn #648
The Lutheran Hymnal
Text: John 21:15
Author: Henriette L. von Hayn, 1778
Translated by: composite
Titled: "Weil ich Jesu Schaeflein bin"
1st Published in: Brueder Choral-Buch, 1784
Tune: "Weil ich Jesu Schaeflein bin"
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 07:15:48 PM by LutherMan »

Daniel L. Gard

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #216 on: October 24, 2010, 07:21:25 PM »
Deaconess,

I join the others in thanking you for honoring us with your powerful testimony to the beauty of life and the power of the Gospel in the darkest days of human life. May you always be a voice for those who cannot speak. God bless you, your husband and all your children - both those in heaven and those on earth.

Lutheranistic

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #217 on: October 24, 2010, 07:30:23 PM »
Deaconess,

I join the others in thanking you for honoring us with your powerful testimony to the beauty of life and the power of the Gospel in the darkest days of human life. May you always be a voice for those who cannot speak. God bless you, your husband and all your children - both those in heaven and those on earth.
Amen...and amen (from the [mostly] ELCA side of the aisle).

LutherMan

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #218 on: October 24, 2010, 07:38:43 PM »

See what a valuable voice yours is on this forum, Deaconesss?  Who knows how many countless lurkers will be taught and brought to the foot of the cross by your theological musings?  Someone has got to challenge Pr. Stoffregan's heterodoxy...

G.Edward

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #219 on: October 25, 2010, 12:45:21 AM »
THIS is why Iím an ardent defender of the unborn.  For another person to have to go through what I did to learn this lesson, well, I just wouldnít wish it on anyone.  For generations of women, men and children who havenít been taught how precious the gift of Life is, I dedicate my remaining years to try to help others come to understand it.

So, what some might view as an limiting and judgmental position (by current curltural standards) is actually one of deepest, most profound mercy and respect.  Thank you for sharing your story, and helping us all understand better what some of us will never experience directly.

ptmccain

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #220 on: October 25, 2010, 08:02:54 AM »
Deaconess Schave, thanks for your kind permission to use your words posted here on abortion, on my blog site. And thanks for the link to the powerful photo of your sons' grave. After I put the post up this morning, I noticed that only a minute or two later, my scheduled post for the Commemoration of Dorcas, Lydia and Phoebe: Faithful Women appeared. Perfect timing, indeed.

Here's a link to the blog post:

http://cyberbrethren.com/2010/10/25/my-one-pound-boys-could-fit-in-the-palm-of-my-hands-%e2%80%94-a-mothers-witness-against-abortion/

kls

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #221 on: October 25, 2010, 10:14:34 AM »
Deaconess Schave, thanks for your kind permission to use your words posted here on abortion, on my blog site. And thanks for the link to the powerful photo of your sons' grave. After I put the post up this morning, I noticed that only a minute or two later, my scheduled post for the Commemoration of Dorcas, Lydia and Phoebe: Faithful Women appeared. Perfect timing, indeed.

Here's a link to the blog post:

http://cyberbrethren.com/2010/10/25/my-one-pound-boys-could-fit-in-the-palm-of-my-hands-%e2%80%94-a-mothers-witness-against-abortion/

I'm still feeling totally insecure today for sharing such personal information on such a public forum, so I thank you all for your gracious comments (and my new facebook friend's supportive comments, as well).  I even skipped that amazing Browns game yesterday to put my thoughts down.   ;D

What I hope beyond anything else is that people can see that what some define as an "unloving" act is really the most loving thing we can do for a person.  Only people/pastors who care and love you will take the risk of pointing out the error of your ways.  It's easy to judge a church body like the LCMS as unloving and uncaring for standing firm on the Word of God in the politically correct culture we live in today.  However, I can attest to the fact that it's the most loving and caring group of people I've encountered.  I'm not part of the old guard of the LCMS and in my experience have not encountered the situations that some say we're reputed for.  I've simply encountered sinners saved by grace who work to uphold a Confession that's persisted and persevered through the years because of the ultimate freedom in Christ it brings.

And if I have to get that personal to stand up to a few bullies here and there, so be it.   ;)

kls

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #222 on: October 25, 2010, 04:10:38 PM »
I forgot to offer my thanks to Pastor Austin for prompting my long post above.  Had he not pointed out my sin of being rude to a fellow brother in Christ, I would not have pondered as much as I did during the Divine Service yesterday whether I was providing a helpful enough witness on the issue at hand.  I'm at about what would be the 15th anniversary of my due date for those little boys this week, and it was a great exercise in continuing to work through the grief.  You did me a great favor, Charles!

LutherMan

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #223 on: October 25, 2010, 04:39:34 PM »
Here is a para-synodical organization of the WELS.
http://www.christianliferesources.com/

Charles_Austin

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #224 on: October 25, 2010, 04:51:18 PM »
We all learn from moving personal stories, Deaconess. A story like yours is inspiring and instructive. So are certain stories that go other directions, some of which you might not approve.
Best wishes,