Author Topic: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?  (Read 31475 times)

J.L. Precup

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #90 on: October 21, 2010, 04:43:42 PM »
One of my parishioners and her children, in Detroit to tend to her dying father, picked the closest Lutheran church to go to on Christmas Eve. She expressed satisfaction that the service was a eucharist, but an usher asked her if she was LC-MS. No, she said, she was ELCA. So the usher and pastor told her that she could not receive the sacrament on Christmas Eve, with a dying father in a nearby hospital. Imagine the effect this had on the woman and her two teen-age sons.

Other LC-MS pastors have assured me that they would have communed that family, but...

LIFE is the topic!

"LIFE is the topic!"  Then why ignore it?
Keep watch, dear Lord, with those who work, or watch, or weep this night, and give your angels charge over those who sleep. Tend the sick, Lord Christ; give rest to the weary, bless the dying, soothe the suffering, pity the afflicted, shield the joyous; and all for your love's sake. Amen.

Scott6

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #91 on: October 21, 2010, 05:00:21 PM »
One of my parishioners and her children, in Detroit to tend to her dying father, picked the closest Lutheran church to go to on Christmas Eve. She expressed satisfaction that the service was a eucharist, but an usher asked her if she was LC-MS. No, she said, she was ELCA. So the usher and pastor told her that she could not receive the sacrament on Christmas Eve, with a dying father in a nearby hospital. Imagine the effect this had on the woman and her two teen-age sons.

Other LC-MS pastors have assured me that they would have communed that family, but...

And the relevance of that to this thread?

Mike

Well, it seems that the topic is ways to combat a rejection of LCMS views.  So while it may have initially been about LFL being "too LCMS" (protecting the unborn and all), it is now a referendum on how the LCMS either actually functions (Charles) or is perceived to function (George).  Not that either is much of a distraction from the idea of protecting unborn folks, but if you focus hard enough, it could be.

J.L. Precup

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #92 on: October 21, 2010, 05:02:57 PM »
One of my parishioners and her children, in Detroit to tend to her dying father, picked the closest Lutheran church to go to on Christmas Eve. She expressed satisfaction that the service was a eucharist, but an usher asked her if she was LC-MS. No, she said, she was ELCA. So the usher and pastor told her that she could not receive the sacrament on Christmas Eve, with a dying father in a nearby hospital. Imagine the effect this had on the woman and her two teen-age sons.

Other LC-MS pastors have assured me that they would have communed that family, but...

And the relevance of that to this thread?

Mike

It's rather obvious, isn't it, Mike?  Easy to love babies, but very difficult to love people.
Keep watch, dear Lord, with those who work, or watch, or weep this night, and give your angels charge over those who sleep. Tend the sick, Lord Christ; give rest to the weary, bless the dying, soothe the suffering, pity the afflicted, shield the joyous; and all for your love's sake. Amen.

Daniel L. Gard

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #93 on: October 21, 2010, 05:03:46 PM »
George, you have to understand that the LCMS is not unloving.  We have only labeled you as heterodox, and fenced off our altars to you in a very loving way.  Now won't  you please come support us?

Have you considered colloquizing into the ELCA? I wonder if you might not be happier there than associated with the positions of the LCMS.

Lutheranistic

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #94 on: October 21, 2010, 05:09:50 PM »
So somebody in the ELCA that is chiming in here please, please, please tell me if you would join a pro-life organization that was geared only to ELCA members?
Ok, Kim, I'll bite. As a  20 plus-year (albeit former) ELCA clergy spouse, there is nothing about Lutherans for Life that would preclude me joining. If that were an issue in which I decided to invest time, talent or dollars, (and as an adoptee I believe it is), the importance of the issue would outweigh any doctrinal difference I would have with other members.
I tried....I really tried...way back in post #95. Sigh.

J.L. Precup

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #95 on: October 21, 2010, 05:15:43 PM »
George, you have to understand that the LCMS is not unloving.  We have only labeled you as heterodox, and fenced off our altars to you in a very loving way.  Now won't  you please come support us?

Have you considered colloquizing into the ELCA? I wonder if you might not be happier there than associated with the positions of the LCMS.

No, but you are free to wonder.  If you wish to hold all recent positions of a church body without question, have you ever considered becoming Roman Catholic?
Keep watch, dear Lord, with those who work, or watch, or weep this night, and give your angels charge over those who sleep. Tend the sick, Lord Christ; give rest to the weary, bless the dying, soothe the suffering, pity the afflicted, shield the joyous; and all for your love's sake. Amen.

LutherMan

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #96 on: October 21, 2010, 05:49:36 PM »
One of my parishioners and her children, in Detroit to tend to her dying father, picked the closest Lutheran church to go to on Christmas Eve. She expressed satisfaction that the service was a eucharist, but an usher asked her if she was LC-MS. No, she said, she was ELCA. So the usher and pastor told her that she could not receive the sacrament on Christmas Eve, with a dying father in a nearby hospital. Imagine the effect this had on the woman and her two teen-age sons.

Other LC-MS pastors have assured me that they would have communed that family, but...
We have heard this as often as we have heard Pr. Stoffregan's wife story.   ::)
Can't you guys dredge up fresher material to use to bash us for our close communion policy?

I could also cite the example of my Jewish friend Sherri who loves Christmas Hymns, but is not a Christ-Believer, who sings beautifully, so a mutual ELCA friend invited her to sing in the choir for the Christmas season.  She went up for communion with the full knowledge of the pastor and choir director, knowing she wasn't Christian.  When I asked Sherri why she did that, she said "Because everyone else was doing it" and the ELCA pastor didn't seem to mind. 
« Last Edit: October 21, 2010, 05:55:26 PM by LutherMan »

Scott6

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #97 on: October 21, 2010, 06:03:34 PM »
George, you have to understand that the LCMS is not unloving.  We have only labeled you as heterodox, and fenced off our altars to you in a very loving way.  Now won't  you please come support us?

Have you considered colloquizing into the ELCA? I wonder if you might not be happier there than associated with the positions of the LCMS.

No, but you are free to wonder.  If you wish to hold all recent positions of a church body without question, have you ever considered becoming Roman Catholic?

No, really.  What about the LCMS appeals to you more than the ELCA?  FWIW, I really don't know as based upon your posts here, you seem quite dissatisfied w/ the LCMS' views and quite happy w/ the ELCA's views.

LutherMan

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Lutherans invited to join Jan. 24 life march in D.C.
« Reply #98 on: October 21, 2010, 06:04:54 PM »
http://www.lcms.org/pages/rpage.asp?NavID=17887

Lutherans invited to join Jan. 24 life march in D.C.


As in past years, Lutherans are invited to join the annual "March for Life," Jan. 24 in Washington, D.C., which includes the offer of free lodging for travelers in the homes of Washington-area Lutheran church members.

The march -- next year's is the 38th -- protests the 1973 U.S. Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion and attests to the God-given value of human life.

Dennis Di Mauro is organizer of the Lutheran delegation for the 13th year and leader of the Lutherans For Life (LFL) chapter in northern Virginia.
<snip>

George Erdner

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #99 on: October 21, 2010, 06:21:12 PM »
One of my parishioners and her children, in Detroit to tend to her dying father, picked the closest Lutheran church to go to on Christmas Eve. She expressed satisfaction that the service was a eucharist, but an usher asked her if she was LC-MS. No, she said, she was ELCA. So the usher and pastor told her that she could not receive the sacrament on Christmas Eve, with a dying father in a nearby hospital. Imagine the effect this had on the woman and her two teen-age sons.

Other LC-MS pastors have assured me that they would have communed that family, but...

LIFE is the topic!

To repeat what I said earlier, the title is, "Is Lutherans For Life 'too LCMS' for ELCA Pro-Life People". The answers to that question are the topic. If you want to have a thread about Life, start one!

http://www.lcms.org/pages/rpage.asp?NavID=17887

Lutherans invited to join Jan. 24 life march in D.C.


As in past years, Lutherans are invited to join the annual "March for Life," Jan. 24 in Washington, D.C., which includes the offer of free lodging for travelers in the homes of Washington-area Lutheran church members.

The march -- next year's is the 38th -- protests the 1973 U.S. Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion and attests to the God-given value of human life.

Dennis Di Mauro is organizer of the Lutheran delegation for the 13th year and leader of the Lutherans For Life (LFL) chapter in northern Virginia.
<snip>

Who got to read that, aside from people who visit the LC-MS website? Where is that invitation published, aside from the LC-MS website?


LutherMan

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #100 on: October 21, 2010, 06:25:29 PM »
Who got to read that, aside from people who visit the LC-MS website? Where is that invitation published, aside from the LC-MS website?
YOU did, George.

J.L. Precup

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #101 on: October 21, 2010, 06:39:01 PM »
George, you have to understand that the LCMS is not unloving.  We have only labeled you as heterodox, and fenced off our altars to you in a very loving way.  Now won't  you please come support us?

Have you considered colloquizing into the ELCA? I wonder if you might not be happier there than associated with the positions of the LCMS.

No, but you are free to wonder.  If you wish to hold all recent positions of a church body without question, have you ever considered becoming Roman Catholic?

No, really.  What about the LCMS appeals to you more than the ELCA?  FWIW, I really don't know as based upon your posts here, you seem quite dissatisfied w/ the LCMS' views and quite happy w/ the ELCA's views.

I am trying to answer the question of this thread with, yes, and to give some examples of why. 

For me personally, it's not a matter of appeal/happiness/dissatisfaction.  That I would find some ELCA views congenial, and some LCMS views not, may put me in a minority position in regards to the LCMS.  And for that I must leave? 

That's all I'll say so as not to get this thread off topic.
Keep watch, dear Lord, with those who work, or watch, or weep this night, and give your angels charge over those who sleep. Tend the sick, Lord Christ; give rest to the weary, bless the dying, soothe the suffering, pity the afflicted, shield the joyous; and all for your love's sake. Amen.

Scott6

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #102 on: October 21, 2010, 06:44:38 PM »
George, you have to understand that the LCMS is not unloving.  We have only labeled you as heterodox, and fenced off our altars to you in a very loving way.  Now won't  you please come support us?

Have you considered colloquizing into the ELCA? I wonder if you might not be happier there than associated with the positions of the LCMS.

No, but you are free to wonder.  If you wish to hold all recent positions of a church body without question, have you ever considered becoming Roman Catholic?

No, really.  What about the LCMS appeals to you more than the ELCA?  FWIW, I really don't know as based upon your posts here, you seem quite dissatisfied w/ the LCMS' views and quite happy w/ the ELCA's views.

I am trying to answer the question of this thread with, yes, and to give some examples of why.  

For me personally, it's not a matter of appeal/happiness/dissatisfaction.  That I would find some ELCA views congenial, and some LCMS views not, may put me in a minority position in regards to the LCMS.  And for that I must leave?  

That's all I'll say so as not to get this thread off topic.

Never said you must leave.  But what I am curious about is what, given your expressed views, attracts you more to the LCMS than the ELCA?  Which is to say that your positions are not particularly surprising or noteworthy but simply quite typical for mainstream ELCA (and, as you may not know, I have a Masters from Luther Sem and was a member of an ELCA congregation for some years, along with my mom being an ELCA pastor).  Though I would imagine that expressing the views you do, you would garner some attention from LCMS circles.

J.L. Precup

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #103 on: October 21, 2010, 06:57:15 PM »
George, you have to understand that the LCMS is not unloving.  We have only labeled you as heterodox, and fenced off our altars to you in a very loving way.  Now won't  you please come support us?

Have you considered colloquizing into the ELCA? I wonder if you might not be happier there than associated with the positions of the LCMS.

No, but you are free to wonder.  If you wish to hold all recent positions of a church body without question, have you ever considered becoming Roman Catholic?

No, really.  What about the LCMS appeals to you more than the ELCA?  FWIW, I really don't know as based upon your posts here, you seem quite dissatisfied w/ the LCMS' views and quite happy w/ the ELCA's views.

I am trying to answer the question of this thread with, yes, and to give some examples of why.  

For me personally, it's not a matter of appeal/happiness/dissatisfaction.  That I would find some ELCA views congenial, and some LCMS views not, may put me in a minority position in regards to the LCMS.  And for that I must leave?  

That's all I'll say so as not to get this thread off topic.

Never said you must leave.  But what I am curious about is what, given your expressed views, attracts you more to the LCMS than the ELCA?  Which is to say that your positions are not particularly surprising or noteworthy but simply quite typical for mainstream ELCA (and, as you may not know, I have a Masters from Luther Sem and was a member of an ELCA congregation for some years, along with my mom being an ELCA pastor).  Though I would imagine that expressing the views you do, you would garner some attention from LCMS circles.

OK, one more, and then I will let others discuss this topic, and I can only do it by analogy.  Suppose you left home for a long while and returned not only to find that things have changed (something to be expected), but also found it to be a place so foreign from what you knew that you can barely navigate what should be familiar territory.
Keep watch, dear Lord, with those who work, or watch, or weep this night, and give your angels charge over those who sleep. Tend the sick, Lord Christ; give rest to the weary, bless the dying, soothe the suffering, pity the afflicted, shield the joyous; and all for your love's sake. Amen.

LutherMan

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Re: Is Lutherans For Life "too LCMS" for ELCA Pro-Life People?
« Reply #104 on: October 21, 2010, 07:06:20 PM »
Chappy,
If you wanted to be honest, you'd go with Pr. James Hallerberg and Resurrection, Coronado..