Author Topic: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold  (Read 78237 times)

pr dtp

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #585 on: October 04, 2011, 10:22:55 AM »
The question should be asked of those backing the ULC as well.

I don't accept your misdirection.  You avoided answering the question (though, in all fairness, I didn't ask it of you) and began spewing accusations at ULC.  That was not the question.  The question was how the BOD has acted in a Christ-like manner.  Calling someone else a sinner is not an answer to the question at hand.

I suppose that speck and beam thing was removed from your Bible?

Michael Slusser

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #586 on: October 04, 2011, 10:38:23 AM »
Did I read those minutes right?  MSU-Mankato's building will not be sold at this time?  And did you read the resolution about the selling of ULC-Minneapolis?  The MNS district will give them "up to" $250000?  ULC-Minneapolis "may" have to relocate?  And that the final "Resolved" was struck, that ULC will not be given the organ or any of the furnishings which will be helpful to them?


I was struck by those, too--the "up to" change (which doesn't promise any amount), the change to "may have to relocate" (in case they decide to squat on the developer's construction site), and that the District will not go on record letting them take any of their stuff. Oh, and that the money would go only if the congregation continues its campus ministry (word added by amendment).

But most interesting of all was the decision to postpone the vote on the resolution thus minimized until the December BOD meeting. The Board may have a feeling that this is perceived as all happening too fast.

Peace,
Michael
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Sandra

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #587 on: October 04, 2011, 01:19:17 PM »
They can't keep the organ, altar, or other furnishings?? Wow. Talk about COLD.
Sandra (Ostapowich) Madden
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Jeremy Loesch

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #588 on: October 04, 2011, 01:59:28 PM »
Sandra, This is so sad and those parts of the resolution were very troubling to me.  I am a sympathetic supporter of ULC.  But this strikes me as telling ULC to get lost.  Even a "You're not welcome here anymore."

Josh- I wonder where the $$$ is coming from to give the executive staff those raises?  Where could they find money to pay for that.  I'm at a loss.  Are you aware of any fundraising that MNS is doing?  What could be done to raise some money?  I'll have to think about various answers to those questions. 

This whole episode is so unseemly. 

Jeremy
A Lutheran pastor growing into all sorts of things.

Michael Slusser

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #589 on: October 04, 2011, 02:10:03 PM »

Here's what I am more disturbed about:

Quote
I. Devotions – Mr. Will Bartley led the opening devotion. His devotion was based on Ephesians 2:8-10. “Works, Attitude, and Forgiveness.” He led the group in confession of sins, confession of faith, and prayer.

I don't know who "Mr. Will Bartley" is, but he does not show up on the LCMS' "Find a Worker" website.  So why is "Mr. Will Bartley" "[leading] the group in confession of sins" when there are ten ordained men who are listed as being present in the roll call and an additional two listed as staff?

Google says he's a Pastoral Care Assistant at Woodbury Lutheran Church, Woodbury MN, and a member of the Board of Omega Camp http://campomega.org/media/omega-word-winter-2011.pdf. Apparently a layman, but it doesn't bother me when prayer is led by lay people.

Peace,
Michael
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 02:22:57 PM by Michael Slusser »
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Sandra

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #590 on: October 04, 2011, 02:59:24 PM »
Prayer is one thing. Confession and absolution?
Sandra (Ostapowich) Madden
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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #591 on: October 04, 2011, 03:00:59 PM »
Prayer is one thing. Confession and absolution?

Did someone say absolution?

Peace,
Michael
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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #592 on: October 04, 2011, 03:06:52 PM »
Oh sorry. Confession without absolution. Like Rome, I guess...

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Michael Slusser

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #593 on: October 04, 2011, 03:12:18 PM »
Oh sorry. Confession without absolution. Like Rome, I guess...
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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #594 on: October 04, 2011, 03:39:34 PM »
One must keep in mind that many of us, and hopefully the secretary of MNS, speak Lutheranese:

"What is Confession?
 
"Confession has two parts. First, that we confess our sins, and second, that we receive absolution, that is, forgiveness, from the pastor as from God Himself, not doubting, but firmly believing that by it our sins are forgiven before God in heaven." (Small Catechism)
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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #595 on: October 04, 2011, 03:47:40 PM »
From: http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=15913

Resolution
MNN District Fall Pastors Conference
October 4, 2011

WHEREAS, the Minnesota South District (MNS) Board of Directors (BOD) has recently taken actions and executed an agreement to sell the property on the campus of the University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN, used for the past 62 years by University Lutheran Chapel (ULC); and

WHEREAS, the Joint Minnesota South/Minnesota North Districts Pastors Conference (May 11, 2011, Brainerd, MN) had requested that the MNS BOD bring this entire matter before the MNS District in convention to deliberate and determine an appropriate course of action regarding the sale of the ULC property; and

WHEREAS, the decision to sell the Lutheran Student Center by the MNS District BOD has resulted in tension, divisions, and a disruption to our life together; therefore be it

RESOLVED, that the Minnesota North District (MNN) 2011 Fall Pastors Conference humbly express its sincere sadness at the outcomes of these actions of the MNS BOD; and be it further

RESOLVED, that the MNS BOD be urged to communicate caringly and clearly and further explain its rationale, and, if at all possible, reverse or delay its recent decisions regarding ULC, so that the matter may considered by the MNS District Convention; and be it further

RESOLVED, that encouragement be given to individuals, congregations, circuits, and districts across the LCMS to offer solutions to sustain the ongoing ministry and mission of ULC; and be it finally

RESOLVED, that the MNN 2011 Fall Pastors Conference encourage all to fervently pray that the Lord of the Church bless the outcomes of these deliberations and decisions concerning ULC.
 
Action: Adopted
Harry Edmon, Ph.D., LCMS Layman

Daniel L. Gard

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #596 on: October 04, 2011, 04:25:37 PM »
A well worded and pastoral expression of concern by the MNN pastors. I pray that the MNS board will listen to them. Sadly, that has not been the record of the MNS board when others, including the joint pastoral conference and President Harrison, have urged them to reconsider.

mqll

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #597 on: October 04, 2011, 05:21:56 PM »
Quote
Actually, this is why many missionaries in the US use the term "follower of Jesus" to replace the term "Christian" because of the baggage that is there.

At what point do we jettison things because of the negative baggage there?  The liturgy, the hymnody, the name Lutheran... all have baggage, we all admit it, but so does the cross, sin, repentance, faith, etc... Maybe the safest mission is no mission at all -- lest we offend by preaching a crucified Savior who suffered and died for the terrible and death incurring sins of all sinners and whose grace, inclusive as it is, is available only in this Gospel and only by faith?!

I think it is all balderdash.  The Gospel has and always will be offensive.  Its baggage cannot be avoided.  It brings faith not because it is palatable or reasonable but because the Spirit is attached to this Word and God has determined to work through the Word to accomplish His saving purpose... messy, yes, indeed, but the only way God works...

Paul's all things to all men has become the grape kool-aid of a people all too willing to ditch everything to please everyone but end up with nothing at all...

Simply because the Gospel is offensive does not mean that we as Christians ought to be needlessly offensive. We ought to let the Gospel be offensive alone and us be offensive little.

If this means being aware of how others perceive us and taking care in how we act, why not do so out of love? It is a kind and loving thing to do.

Look at the book unChristian or They Like Jesus but not the Church. Both speak about a robust engagement of the community—not holding back. But both give us something to think about in how we do our engaging, out of love for our neighbor.

The actions here are not by people avoiding confrontation—they are looking to engage others and engage the community. Now, we can debate whether it is best to drop the name "Lutheran" or not—I know there was some question about my own church's name when it was started—but we can put these discussions simply in the situation of "How are we best to engage our people?"

Not "Are we ashamed of our name?" or "Do we not think the cross is offensive?"

mqll

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #598 on: October 04, 2011, 05:29:44 PM »
However, to those who worked to build it up, those who are personally invested in the place, it is an obscene question, like a man pawning his wife's wedding ring on the theory that the family benefits most by having the cash.

A better analogy might be that a father buys a farm and asks his sons to work it. Under an agreement that the father will own the farm for their benefit, the sons give up the opportunity for other careers, they establish roots, they sacrificially work the farm for decades, they have families that live on the farm and help with the work, they make improvements, they put their sweat and blood into that farm, making it very productive. They, in turn, raise sons who also work the farm, establishing roots, and the farm prospers even more.

Suddenly, aware that the price of farmland has increased greatly, the father decides to sell the farm and sends them an email telling them so. Knowing that his sons would like to buy the farm so that they can continue to earn incomes, not have to uproot their families, and can continue doing what they love in a community that they love, he instead refuses to meet with them and enters into a sale with little warning. When the sons ask him what they and their families are now going to do, the father tells them that he is going to invest his money from the sale in farm-related stocks, and maybe he'll give them a bit of the proceeds so that they can maybe get a new start. He'll have to see.

"But Father, this is our home. You agreed to keep the family farm for our benefit so that we could work it, raise families, and earn incomes. Why did you not talk to us about this and give us the opportunity to work out a way to buy the farm and remain here?" the sons ask. The father's response to his sons: "It's my farm. I'll do with it what I wish. Consider yourselves lucky that I might give you a stipend so you can continue to farm in some manner- maybe tenant farming. If you have any other questions talk to my attorney. Oh, by the way, start packing."
Okay, I'll accept that as a better analogy (though many of those who are upset might be a little put off by the idea of the district being the father and the congregation being the children) but the point of my question remains. If the scenario I outlined above took place, would those who are upset use the 3.5. million to repurchase the building? All the question does is give people a chance to see it from the other side. If it is a choice between 3.5 million and this building, which is better for the district to have? That is the question facing the board. They might have gotten the choice wrong. They might have gone about it in an unprofessional manner. They might have a vision for student ministry that is entirely bogus. But to claim in a sermon to the congregation that the sale is an example of the district falling prey to the allure of mammon and seeking to serve two masters, etc. is, well, a pretty bold thing to say, since you have to know their hearts and be able to say, "thus says the Lord," to your judgment. Maybe it is spot on. But from my perspective as a sympathetic onlooker from afar, it comes across as saying too much in the context of a sermon. As a private opinion, sure, but as the Word of God to the congregation, I don't know if I would go there.

Sorry for the long quote and the short note: but I agree with Peter.

Once again, I point to my own words at the beginning and I say this as one who has seen this happening in campus ministry for a bit o'time. It is too bad.

But I think the language used is a bit much; will we bring the board on charges and have them excommunicated? I have sympathy for ULC and I'm not saying everything the MN board did was done in the best way possible. But are they sinful in this situation? Obviously in the wrong? Going against the will of their Heavenly Father? Not sure about that...

Revbert

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #599 on: October 04, 2011, 05:42:22 PM »
From: http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=15913

Resolution
MNN District Fall Pastors Conference
October 4, 2011

WHEREAS, the Minnesota South District (MNS) Board of Directors (BOD) has recently taken actions and executed an agreement to sell the property on the campus of the University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN, used for the past 62 years by University Lutheran Chapel (ULC); and

WHEREAS, the Joint Minnesota South/Minnesota North Districts Pastors Conference (May 11, 2011, Brainerd, MN) had requested that the MNS BOD bring this entire matter before the MNS District in convention to deliberate and determine an appropriate course of action regarding the sale of the ULC property; and

WHEREAS, the decision to sell the Lutheran Student Center by the MNS District BOD has resulted in tension, divisions, and a disruption to our life together; therefore be it

RESOLVED, that the Minnesota North District (MNN) 2011 Fall Pastors Conference humbly express its sincere sadness at the outcomes of these actions of the MNS BOD; and be it further

RESOLVED, that the MNS BOD be urged to communicate caringly and clearly and further explain its rationale, and, if at all possible, reverse or delay its recent decisions regarding ULC, so that the matter may considered by the MNS District Convention; and be it further

RESOLVED, that encouragement be given to individuals, congregations, circuits, and districts across the LCMS to offer solutions to sustain the ongoing ministry and mission of ULC; and be it finally

RESOLVED, that the MNN 2011 Fall Pastors Conference encourage all to fervently pray that the Lord of the Church bless the outcomes of these deliberations and decisions concerning ULC.
 
Action: Adopted

RESOLVED, that the MNN Pastors shall not welcome said BOD to any gathering for adult beverages.