Author Topic: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold  (Read 78245 times)

mmeyer

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #435 on: September 26, 2011, 01:44:40 PM »
Fwiw here is the CLCs official response.  People have been asking so here it is .

The CLC is the people and not the building.   It has always been that way even from the early days of Gamma Delta.  You should be proud that the CLC is the one of the largest if not the largest campus ministry in the LCMS.  God continues to do powerful work through our students as they witness to the overwhelming grace of Jesus Christ.  When they sell our building we will continue on campus.   We feel our best days are ahead of us.   God is faithful!!  

Harry Edmon

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #436 on: September 26, 2011, 02:06:02 PM »
Gee, back again to the original topic - the sinful sale of the ULC property by MNS - Lutheran Satire has now weighed in:

http://youtu.be/9nbZgWa5G6I

Am I correct in understanding that this incident is simply an isolated thing that is happening in a vacuum, and discussion of the larger issues raised by this incident are therefore off-topic? Does this incident have nothing to do with larger plans for stewardship of resources for ministry and outreach?

A wider discussion is always welcome as far as I am concerned.    I just don't want to forget the original incident.
Harry Edmon, Ph.D., LCMS Layman

FrPeters

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #437 on: September 26, 2011, 02:43:34 PM »
Quote
The meeting of LCMS district leaders responsible for North American missions has concluded. From what my husband heard in St. Louis there is concern about internet misinformation regarding decisions related to the University Lutheran Chapel. Some statements on various blogs may in fact be slanderous.  I hope this forum is not a place where misinformation has or will be passed on.

The officials have ample opportunity and access to the internet to make their case... absent much from the "officials" I would have to say I think the statements have been relatively benign.  There has been no name calling -- basically just loud complaints about a short-sighted decision made behind the scenes with nary a public face to the decision, the decision makers, or the rationale...
Fr Larry Peters
Grace LCMS, Clarksville, TN
http://www.pastoralmeanderings.blogspot.com/

RobertBurmeister

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #438 on: September 27, 2011, 08:17:41 AM »
Dear Bloggers,

Please consider the following letter which was sent to the LCMS MN South Board of Directors back in May.  It is my personal testimony to the importance of having an EASILY accessible worship structure across the street from the University of Minnesota.

-------------
May 8, 2011

Dear Rev. Dr. Seitz and Rev. Meier,

Christ is risen!  He is risen indeed!  Alleluia!  I wish many blessings to you and your work on behalf of the Holy Church in my home state of Minnesota.

I am writing to you as an alumnus of the University of Minnesota, Minneapolis and as a former member of ULC-Minneapolis.  As a young undergraduate at the U of M, I was faced with many difficult challenges that are presented to most, if not all college students.  College was an exciting time, but very tough for someone out on his own for the first time.  Many temptations and false ideas were presented to me during those formative years.  I thank God that I was blessed with the stability of University Lutheran Chapel during my undergraduate studies.  I give thanks to God for the blessing of the forgiveness of sins that was pronounced on me by the called minister of Christ at ULC and for the Holy Body and Blood that were fed to me for the forgiveness of my sins and strengthening of my faith.

I am absolutely terrified by the instability which is now facing ULC-Minneapolis with the proposed sale of their church building.  College is when most kids fall away from the Church.  Students at the University quite frankly need encouragement to attend church.  A great encouragement is to have a stable, warm and inviting church building within walking distance of the fourth largest public university in the United States. 

When I first arrived on campus at the University of MN, I had no car and knew no one.  Only because of ULC’s proximity to the campus and the dormitories was I able to attend church.  During my time at ULC-Minneapolis, I was able to be fed Word and Sacrament.  I was able to receive in-depth catechesis, which was in many ways more valuable than the scientific knowledge I learned at the University.  At ULC I was able to make friends with other LCMS Lutherans at college and even find my future wife.

I have enclosed a map of the churches near the University of MN East and West Banks.  It appears to be mostly unchanged from when I was a student at the University.  The map was provided by ULC at their website: http://ulcmn.org http://ulcmn.org/Files/Save%20ULC%20Files/MPLS%20Campus%20Churches.jpg.  As you can see, there is only one church in proximity of the main campus that teaches the true Christian faith: University Lutheran Chapel.  To sell the ULC property is to give students rationale to attend a church of some other denomination such as the ELCA, or to rationalize that they will only attend church on rare occasion when they are “home visiting parents”.  Given the expansion of the University campus, if the property is sold, it will be impossible to ever get a similar property back again.

ULC’s property and its proximity to the U of M is a jewel.  To be good stewards of the mission money of the MN South District, I encourage you to support what is one of the best, if not the best, college campus ministries in the entire Missouri Synod.  As a former member of the congregation and as a former student of the U of M, I attest to the fact that the location and the facility have a significant influence on University students, as well as the campus in general.

I pray that you have the wisdom of God as you deliberate how best to support campus ministry for the students of the University of Minnesota who are in need of God’s gracious forgiveness through the Holy Means of Grace.


In Christ,

Robert Burmeister

ULC-Minneapolis Alumnus, 1990-94

CC: MN South Board of Directors

Enclosure.

Charles_Austin

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #439 on: September 27, 2011, 08:52:57 AM »
The letter cited above has this sentence in it:
"As you can see, there is only one church in proximity of the main campus that teaches the true Christian faith: University Lutheran Chapel." 

I comment:
Well, then....  ::) >:( ::) ::)

jtpless

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #440 on: September 27, 2011, 10:18:36 AM »
When I served at ULC (1983-2000), the churches within walking distance of the chapel were two ELCA congregations with strong gay agendas, University Baptist Church (advertising itself as a "liberal church"), and the newly constructed Church of Latter Day Saints Center. There was also a joint Lutheran-Episcopal Center and a United Protestant campus ministry (UCC, Presbyterian, Methodist). The Newman Center was closed by the archdiocese on account of their hosting a Mass for pro-gay Roman Catholics. JTP+

PS
On a more positive note, "Christ on Campus" a branch of Higher Things (www.higherthings.org/campus/chapters) just announced that they have added their 100th chapter. Congratulations to Pastors Zill and Kind on this fine work.

Harry Edmon

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #441 on: September 28, 2011, 04:32:49 AM »
Pastor Kind was interviewed on Issues, Etc. on Monday about the sale.   MNS was asked a number of times over the past 5 months to talk on Issues, Etc about ULC and has declined.   Here is the audio:

http://issuesetc.org/2011/09/26/monday-september-26-2011-2/
« Last Edit: September 28, 2011, 04:50:49 AM by Harry Edmon »
Harry Edmon, Ph.D., LCMS Layman

RobertBurmeister

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #442 on: September 28, 2011, 02:08:45 PM »
New editorial in the Minnesota Daily:

There goes the neighborhood
Development companies are destroying the character of student neighborhoods.

http://www.mndaily.com/2011/09/27/there-goes-neighborhood

George Erdner

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #443 on: September 28, 2011, 03:35:33 PM »
New editorial in the Minnesota Daily:

There goes the neighborhood
Development companies are destroying the character of student neighborhoods.

http://www.mndaily.com/2011/09/27/there-goes-neighborhood

What do you mean by "character" of student neighborhoods? And, I thought this controversy was over the requirement that there must be a Lutheran church on campus. That implies that off-campus, in the "student neighborhood" that surrounds the campus, is unacceptable.

Birkholz

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #444 on: September 28, 2011, 03:56:00 PM »
The district has entered into an agreement to sell the property to Doran for $3.5 million.

http://www.ulcmn.org/Files/Save%20ULC%20Files/District%20Sells%20to%20Doran.pdf
Pastor Mark Birkholz
Zion Lutheran Church
Naperville, IL
www.zionnaperville.org

Harry Edmon

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #445 on: September 28, 2011, 04:14:02 PM »
A very sad day for the LCMS.

I hope that next year's Minnesota South District Convention votes everyone out of office who was associated with the sale.  Someone in the District should also propose an resolution to give the proceeds from the sale to ULC for a new piece of property.
Harry Edmon, Ph.D., LCMS Layman

Sandra

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #446 on: September 28, 2011, 04:32:51 PM »
Do you really think that this congregation can afford $3.5 million for a new space?

Or that they could raise those kinds of funds in a matter of 10 days?
Sandra (Ostapowich) Madden
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George Erdner

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #447 on: September 28, 2011, 04:42:49 PM »
What do you mean by "character" of student neighborhoods? And, I thought this controversy was over the requirement that there must be a Lutheran church on campus. That implies that off-campus, in the "student neighborhood" that surrounds the campus, is unacceptable.

It is unacceptable, George.  The cross of Christ stands before the eyes of every student that goes onto that campus.  Now the cross might be hidden in an office building away from the campus, presuming that affordable rental space can be found.

Do you really think that this congregation can afford $3.5 million for a new space?

I think that congregation can find an excellent space for much less than $3.5 million dollars. With an average attendance of 99 people per week (according to the LCMS website), I think $35,353 dollars worth of assets per average worshipping might not be the most prudent stewardship of resources.
 

Sandra

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #448 on: September 28, 2011, 04:57:00 PM »
But it has been good stewardship for 50 years. The chapel sanctuary is nearly full every Sunday. It wasn't designed to seat much more than that. It's not like they're having services in a space they're barely filling. Yes, there is additional office/classroom space available in the building, but those spaces have been rented out in the past and could be again. They were even used as District offices for a time.

Even if this was the ultimate result, the District has handled this whole thing VERY poorly.
Sandra (Ostapowich) Madden
sandramadden1119@gmail.com

George Erdner

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #449 on: September 28, 2011, 05:35:56 PM »
But it has been good stewardship for 50 years. The chapel sanctuary is nearly full every Sunday. It wasn't designed to seat much more than that. It's not like they're having services in a space they're barely filling. Yes, there is additional office/classroom space available in the building, but those spaces have been rented out in the past and could be again. They were even used as District offices for a time.

Even if this was the ultimate result, the District has handled this whole thing VERY poorly.

Sandra, I believe that good stewardship includes adapting to changing times. If the reported attendance averages 99, and that means that the chapel is nearly full, then that could mean that there's not much room for growth. There are over 57,000 students on the campus after all.
 
As for stewardship over time, the physical value of any building includes both the building and the land it sits on. While buildings seldom increase in value, the land that they sit on usually does. Land is, after all, a finite commodity. God stopped making new land a long time ago.
 
I am not arguing about how the District handled things. I don't have an iron in that fire. I'm only speaking in the most general of terms, and attempting to address the larger issues that this specific thing is just one example of.
 
Maybe there is a good and compelling reason for not selling. I do not know. Maybe this is one of the best ideas that the LCMS every had, even though it rubs some people the wrong way. I don't know. But I do know that there hasn't been a compelling case made that would cause an impartial, non-LCMS Lutheran like me to be swayed against selling. There also hasn't been a compelling case made in here in favor of selling that would convince an impartial, non-LCMS Lutheran like me.
 
The one thing I am convinced of is that situations like this will become more common, not less common, as time passes. The entire issue of ministering to young adults in the years of transition from kids living with Mom and Dad to married adults with children of their own is something that almost no Christian denomination has done a very good job of dealing with. The arguments presented in here seem to, for the most part, reflect an outdated and nostalgic remembrance of how things used to be. The statements supposedly describing what it's like to be a twentysomething in the 21st century seem to portray a very realistic depiction of what it was like in the mid 20th century.