Author Topic: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold  (Read 76380 times)

Dave Benke

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #405 on: September 23, 2011, 10:08:02 PM »
That makes sense in many ways.

Dave Benke

George Erdner

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #406 on: September 23, 2011, 10:14:50 PM »
You make a valid point, George, but with a relatively obvious illustration.  Should we fund the mission that works among people of other religions or no religion more so than the mission designed to work among people who are already Christian or already Lutheran?  What do you think?

Dave Benke

I think that if any illustration that I post isn't extremely obvious, then responses with pick apart the illustration and ignore the point.
 
Personally, I think that there is a need for both working among people who are already Lutheran Christians and with reaching people who aren't Christian at all. I don't think it's possible to accomplish one without the other.
 
I view chaplaincy to university students much the way I view chaplaincy to military service men and women: they are people who have already demonstrated superior qualities and who are facing unusual challenges to themselves as Christians and human beings. The church should make every effort to be there to help them.

Peace,
Michael

I can't even begin to respond to that. Equating students to soldiers, marines, sailors, and airmen just boggles my mind. I'm totally flabbergasted that anyone could possibly equate the two.
 

pr dtp

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #407 on: September 23, 2011, 10:23:52 PM »
You make a valid point, George, but with a relatively obvious illustration.  Should we fund the mission that works among people of other religions or no religion more so than the mission designed to work among people who are already Christian or already Lutheran?  What do you think?

Dave Benke

I view chaplaincy to university students much the way I view chaplaincy to military service men and women: they are people who have already demonstrated superior qualities and who are facing unusual challenges to themselves as Christians and human beings. The church should make every effort to be there to help them.

Peace,
Michael

All chaplains (whether campus, military or hospice) minister to more than just those people from their religious background, albeit the ministry differs.  But the ministry is to the campus - to the staff as well as the students.  But the focus of the ministry should be the campus, the base, or the homes of the hospice patients/hospital/facility.

In the campus ministries I have been involved in, and as a hospice chaplain, there were always "others" not directly involved (non-students, volunteers) that were part of the ministry.  BUT, they were not the focus of the ministry.  The same thing here, looking at the numbers, it is not the 99 who stayed, and 1 who was lost - rather just the other way around.


Michael Slusser

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #408 on: September 23, 2011, 10:26:51 PM »

I view chaplaincy to university students much the way I view chaplaincy to military service men and women: they are people who have already demonstrated superior qualities and who are facing unusual challenges to themselves as Christians and human beings. The church should make every effort to be there to help them.

Peace,
Michael

I can't even begin to respond to that. Equating students to soldiers, marines, sailors, and airmen just boggles my mind. I'm totally flabbergasted that anyone could possibly equate the two.

They're 18, 19, 20 year olds, encountering challenges to their faith that they had never imagined before. I've worked with that age all my life. They're all worth the effort. Especially if they've chosen military service or qualified for university education.

Peace,
Michael
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mietzner

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #409 on: September 23, 2011, 10:51:26 PM »
Checking young Pr. Fisk's parish assignment in Pa. at lcms.org, his video skills apparently haven't yet translated into any gains in the worshiping assembly, or maybe better have grabbed time away from turning in any of that pesky data.  One never knows when that time spent commenting on goings-on in Minnesota will pay off in Pennsylvania, though. 

Dave Benke
I'm super late here, but I must defend Pr. Fisk, for even though his own congregation may not be growing numerically, I have actually baptized people because of his videos.  He is providing quite a service to the church.
Pr. Kyle Mietzner - Zion (LCMS) Anchorage, AK

George Erdner

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #410 on: September 24, 2011, 12:34:42 AM »

I view chaplaincy to university students much the way I view chaplaincy to military service men and women: they are people who have already demonstrated superior qualities and who are facing unusual challenges to themselves as Christians and human beings. The church should make every effort to be there to help them.

Peace,
Michael

I can't even begin to respond to that. Equating students to soldiers, marines, sailors, and airmen just boggles my mind. I'm totally flabbergasted that anyone could possibly equate the two.

They're 18, 19, 20 year olds, encountering challenges to their faith that they had never imagined before. I've worked with that age all my life. They're all worth the effort. Especially if they've chosen military service or qualified for university education.

Peace,
Michael

That is a crock. All 18, 19, and 20 year old encounter challenges to their faith. It comes with the territory. It's no different for college students or kids going straight to asking people if they want fries with that.
 
But to equate getting accepted into college, which nowadays usually means little more than being able to qualify for a student loan, with making the decision to put one's life on the line in defense of one's country is up with some of the worst insults to military personnel I've ever read. How dare you equate going away to college with joining an organization which includes among its requirements accepting the fact that other people are going to be making a deliberate effort to kill you, but you have to continue to do your job anyway?
 
If you can't see the obvious difference between the challenges of joining the military compared with going to college, how can your judgement on any other such issue be trusted?
 

Revbert

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #411 on: September 24, 2011, 07:50:26 AM »

I view chaplaincy to university students much the way I view chaplaincy to military service men and women: they are people who have already demonstrated superior qualities and who are facing unusual challenges to themselves as Christians and human beings. The church should make every effort to be there to help them.

Peace,
Michael

I can't even begin to respond to that. Equating students to soldiers, marines, sailors, and airmen just boggles my mind. I'm totally flabbergasted that anyone could possibly equate the two.

They're 18, 19, 20 year olds, encountering challenges to their faith that they had never imagined before. I've worked with that age all my life. They're all worth the effort. Especially if they've chosen military service or qualified for university education.

Peace,
Michael

That is a crock. All 18, 19, and 20 year old encounter challenges to their faith. It comes with the territory. It's no different for college students or kids going straight to asking people if they want fries with that.
 
But to equate getting accepted into college, which nowadays usually means little more than being able to qualify for a student loan, with making the decision to put one's life on the line in defense of one's country is up with some of the worst insults to military personnel I've ever read. How dare you equate going away to college with joining an organization which includes among its requirements accepting the fact that other people are going to be making a deliberate effort to kill you, but you have to continue to do your job anyway?
 
If you can't see the obvious difference between the challenges of joining the military compared with going to college, how can your judgement on any other such issue be trusted?
 

George,

While the personal risk may not be equal, each person deals with the challenges and risks of growing up and moving on differently.  And, college life isn't that cushy these days. I guess you didn't hear of the 19-yr-old freshman girl stabbed to death by her roommate just because of the music coming out of her iPod.

Art
(reminded of that old saw, "Better to be silent and thought a fool....")

Buckeye Deaconess

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #412 on: September 24, 2011, 08:39:03 AM »
But to equate getting accepted into college, which nowadays usually means little more than being able to qualify for a student loan, with making the decision to put one's life on the line in defense of one's country is up with some of the worst insults to military personnel I've ever read. How dare you equate going away to college with joining an organization which includes among its requirements accepting the fact that other people are going to be making a deliberate effort to kill you, but you have to continue to do your job anyway?
 
If you can't see the obvious difference between the challenges of joining the military compared with going to college, how can your judgement on any other such issue be trusted?

Getting accepted into college these days is becoming much more difficult, actually.  Admission standards are becoming more stringent than in the past at universities.  Of course at open-admission institutions such as community colleges, that's not so much the case.  The need for campus ministry at community colleges isn't such a priority because you don't have residential students there typically; they're commuters.

I'm not the least bit offended as a military veteran by Father Slusser's comparison.  I'm willing to bet that many military personnel are also college students.  Serving in both vocations at once can lead to quite high stress levels, and the need for pastoral care is great.  I wish I had seen the need for pastoral care/campus ministry when I was a college student being activated for Desert Storm, returning just in time for my wedding then re-entering college in a very different frame of mind.  My thoughts for what they're worth.

George Erdner

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #413 on: September 24, 2011, 10:11:35 AM »
While the personal risk may not be equal, each person deals with the challenges and risks of growing up and moving on differently.  And, college life isn't that cushy these days. I guess you didn't hear of the 19-yr-old freshman girl stabbed to death by her roommate just because of the music coming out of her iPod.

Art
(reminded of that old saw, "Better to be silent and thought a fool....")

I agreed that there were challenges in simply being 18, 19, or 20. What does the venue of that action have to do with choosing to enroll in college or choosing to go to beautician school, or going straight to work as a clerk in a store? Such random acts of violence have nothing to do with choosing to go to school. If anything, it proves false your assertion that I object to most:
 
I view chaplaincy to university students much the way I view chaplaincy to military service men and women: they are people who have already demonstrated superior qualities and who are facing unusual challenges to themselves as Christians and human beings. The church should make every effort to be there to help them.


You claim that university students have "already demonstrated superior qualities", implying they are superior to those 18, 19, and 20 year olds who do not become university students, which is a sort of academic elitism I find repugnant, and you support that idea by referring to one of those people who have "already demonstrated superior qualities" stabbing a roommate to death over a trivial issue.
 
You need to pay attention to the old saws you bring up. 
 
 

Michael Slusser

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #414 on: September 24, 2011, 10:15:23 AM »
Pr. Hebbeler, I guess some people on this Forum can't tell us apart. Maybe we're having more fun than is allowed by law.

Peace,
Michael
Fr. Michael Slusser
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George Erdner

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #415 on: September 24, 2011, 10:25:25 AM »
Pr. Hebbeler, I guess some people on this Forum can't tell us apart. Maybe we're having more fun than is allowed by law.

Peace,
Michael

Ooops. Mea Culpa. My bad. The content was so similar I did not look closely enough to see who wrote what. My apologies.
 
It doesn't change my objection to calling university students "superior". Nor does it change my objection to equating students to those who enlist in the military, regardless of who makes the comparison.
 
« Last Edit: September 24, 2011, 11:28:07 AM by George Erdner »

Michael Slusser

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #416 on: September 24, 2011, 10:47:59 AM »

It doesn't change my objection to calling university students "superior". Nor does it change my objection to equating students to those who enlist in the military, regardless of who makes the comparison.

Students have to show superior qualities in order to get into college. They aren't selected randomly. Many or most of them are surprised that they have to work a lot harder than they did in high school to get good grades; in high school they were often admired or resented for their ability to learn.

In college, they are introduced rapidly to people and ideas they had never heard of before. They thought they had a pretty good knowledge of the world and truth, but the walls of their knowledge are knocked down and they find that the mental room in which they had been comfortable was built inside a much, much larger space full of stuff that makes them wonder if they can still even keep, much less use, the furniture that was there--like their childhood religious faith.

That (and not a knife in the back) is the challenge to their faith that these talented young people face, and I repeat, the church should make every effort to be there to help them.

Peace,
Michael
« Last Edit: September 24, 2011, 10:49:49 AM by Michael Slusser »
Fr. Michael Slusser
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Daniel L. Gard

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #417 on: September 24, 2011, 10:48:31 AM »
Just a thought or two on military members and college students. In many ways, the young people who enlist in the military are an elite group. Why do I say this? Roughly only 25% of all American youth meet the qualifications to enlist (this is a figure I learned from recruiters). They must meet the stringent requirements of educational, physical fitness, medical, drug/substance abuse, criminal history and security screening. Many of these kids must also test very high to secure training in advanced technological fields. In some ways, it is far harder to qualify for enlistment than it is to gain admission to a college.

For some enlistees, the military is their route to higher education. Many will take college courses while in uniform. Many will continue after they leave the service by using their well-earned veterans’ benefits. All will benefit from the discipline, training and experiences they gain while serving their country.

Obviously, I am proud to be a chaplain to these amazing young people. Remember, less than 1% of the population have worn the uniform and protected the other 99%.

But with that said, they do indeed have a lot in common with their peers who go directly into college. They are young. They have profound spiritual needs (accentuated for service members by the fact that they can be sent forward on short notice into life and death situations). Many of them have never heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ and are clueless as to what a pastor might be. They are making decisions that will affect them for the rest of their lives. When you take away the outward differences between a student at a college and (for example) a Marine Lance Corporal, what you find is pretty much the same person.

Daniel L. Gard

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #418 on: September 24, 2011, 10:57:17 AM »
One last thought. The Church needs to be there for young people wherever they are. On campus? YES! In the military? YES! On the streets of our cities and villiages? YES! In prisons and jails? YES!

mariemeyer

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Re: University Lutheran Chapel (University of Minnesota) to be sold
« Reply #419 on: September 24, 2011, 10:58:44 AM »
The meeting of LCMS district leaders responsible for North American missions has concluded. From what my husband heard in St. Louis there is concern about internet misinformation regarding decisions related to the University Lutheran Chapel. Some statements on various blogs may in fact be slanderous.  I hope this forum is not a place where misinformation has or will be passed on.

Closing beloved LCMS insitutions, missions or congregations will always be troubling. The previous closing of St. John's College Winfied Kansas is an example.  A countless number of pastors (including former synodical President John Behnken), teachers, missionaries and parish workers were "Johnies." An uncle of my mother donated money to establish the college.  Bill's grandfather was for many years the president. Graduates joined efforts to save the school, but the decision to close held.   My home congregation, considered the oldest Lutheran Church in America, recently had to sell it's church building, a decision I regret.

I do not know all the factors contributing to a decision troubling to many people concerned about campus ministry. My prayer is that all MNS college students continue to be served in a manner that strengthens their Christian faith.