Author Topic: Tuesday afternoon  (Read 5737 times)

dkeener

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Re: Tuesday afternoon
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2011, 09:30:07 AM »
The sex, gender, physiognomy or coffee preference of the Holy Trinity has not come up at the ELCA Assembly.

Yet  ;D

djbaer

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Re: Tuesday afternoon
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2011, 09:44:10 AM »
I found it fascinating this morning that the Assembly approved no response to resolutions from synods regarding sexuality as part of the en block actions.  No discussion.  No consideration.  No request for separate consideration.  Just some garbage about acknowledging the sorrow and joy of people in the ELCA to the 2009 actions and declining to reconsider.

Let's not talk about it -- just move on.  Nothing to see here.

I think that would have been the only opportunity for the assembly to address the 2009 sexuality actions.   I had hoped someone could have mustered the 10 voting members so that they could have discussed it. 

Sad but telling.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 10:04:07 AM by David Baer »

Team Hesse

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Re: Tuesday afternoon
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2011, 10:06:19 AM »
The sex, gender, physiognomy or coffee preference of the Holy Trinity has not come up at the ELCA Assembly.

Of course not, its obvious it would be Maxwll House --- "Good to the last drop!"

Heretic! It must be "Free Trade Coffee" from the loving hands of the true serving poor without the stain of western, imperial, corporate Greed.

Lou


Lou, Lou, Lou --


It's not "Free Trade Coffee."  That's for heartless capitalists who don't understand that what you call "free" trade is merely a tool of oppression and injustice wielded by the rich and by farmers. 


It's "Fair Trade Coffee."
Oh my! I recant. Off with my head. I am deeply in bondage to freedom. No place for me in the ELCA.

Lou (continuing to live at the intersection of oppressions)

Erma S. Wolf

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Re: Tuesday afternoon
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2011, 10:35:47 AM »
I found it fascinating this morning that the Assembly approved no response to resolutions from synods regarding sexuality as part of the en block actions.  No discussion.  No consideration.  No request for separate consideration.  Just some garbage about acknowledging the sorrow and joy of people in the ELCA to the 2009 actions and declining to reconsider.

Let's not talk about it -- just move on.  Nothing to see here.

I think that would have been the only opportunity for the assembly to address the 2009 sexuality actions.   I had hoped someone could have mustered the 10 voting members so that they could have discussed it. 

Sad but telling.

And just which "someone" would that be? A lot of folks have left the ELCA who could have been among the "mustering" folks.  Even so,  I know some people who are there as voting members at the CWA who might have been willing to be among those 10 members, if only there had been someone looking for them and organizing this.  Would that have been good or not in the long run, I don't know.  This could have been the reason for Lutheran CORE to be at the CWA, in order to provide support for the discussion of these synods' resolutions.  As it is, I don't know much about who is there, or what they are doing.

Now, I know why you and others left the ELCA, and I respect that.  But as far as I am concerned, this is only evidence that as far as the ELCA is concerned, Lutheran CORE has left the building.

djbaer

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Re: Tuesday afternoon
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2011, 10:42:36 AM »
Lutheran CORE is actually in the building.  I don't know which room, but they have a presence at the Assembly.  I know Mark Chavez and others are at the assembly.

I understand that what you say is true.  I honor those of you who have stayed in the ELCA to continue to bear witness. 

Steven Tibbetts

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Lutheran CORE at the CWA
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2011, 10:59:54 AM »
A Lutheran CORE resource room is in the Aruba room in the North Tower of the Orlando World Marriott all day Wednesday and Thursday, from 7 am to 9 pm.  That was the only space and times available.

Pax, Steven+
The Rev. Steven Paul Tibbetts, STS
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Dan Fienen

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Re: Tuesday afternoon
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2011, 11:34:56 AM »
So much for the oft repeated refrain that if there is opposition to the actions of CWA '09, make resolutions and bring them to the next CWA.  Just because you follow proceedure does not mean that anyone wants to hear.

Dan
Pr. Daniel Fienen
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revklak

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Re: Tuesday afternoon
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2011, 11:51:27 AM »
The sex, gender, physiognomy or coffee preference of the Holy Trinity has not come up at the ELCA Assembly.

Of course not, its obvious it would be Maxwll House --- "Good to the last drop!"

Heretic! It must be "Free Trade Coffee" from the loving hands of the true serving poor without the stain of western, imperial, corporate Greed.

Lou


Lou, Lou, Lou --


It's not "Free Trade Coffee."  That's for heartless capitalists who don't understand that what you call "free" trade is merely a tool of oppression and injustice wielded by the rich and by farmers. 


It's "Fair Trade Coffee."
Oh my! I recant. Off with my head. I am deeply in bondage to freedom. No place for me in the ELCA.

Lou (continuing to live at the intersection of oppressions)

It's ok - Lou -- with me being a heretic, and your head coming off, next time we're in the same town together let's just go share a pitcher of good old, southern style "sweet" tea.  Coffee should never be a 'church-dividing issue", since it IS the thrid Lutheran sacrament, after all.

revklak

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Re: Tuesday afternoon
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2011, 11:59:22 AM »
I found it fascinating this morning that the Assembly approved no response to resolutions from synods regarding sexuality as part of the en block actions.  No discussion.  No consideration.  No request for separate consideration.  Just some garbage about acknowledging the sorrow and joy of people in the ELCA to the 2009 actions and declining to reconsider.

Let's not talk about it -- just move on.  Nothing to see here.
David, please say more. (I am not watching coverage, just picking up info here)

Are you saying that any memorial that was 'sent up' was given a recommendation to ignore or defeat, and then the R&C recommendation/s were accepted en bloc with other items?  Or were they simply acknowledge that some memorials were received but that they would just be ignored passed over for the sake of moving forward?  Just curious exactly how this response came down/was enacted.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 12:01:36 PM by revklak »

Paul L. Knudson

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Re: Tuesday afternoon
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2011, 02:48:51 PM »
Lou, my friend, I'm not sure where you are coming from on this coffee business.  I do not want to be a person without a sense of humor, but surely you being in agriculture can have some sympathy for fair prices for products delivered, fair prices for producers.  I do wish a whole lot more would support "fair trade" coffee.  Again we should not take ourselves too seriously, but we can be capitalists and still be for producers who without fair trade are overpowered by Maxwell House owners.

On the worship and the hymn without an overt naming of God or Jesus.  Reminded me of a recent news item in one of the latest Christian Century magazines.  There was a recent gathering of Unitarian Universalists.  The problem was the fear that some may be offended by one of the hymns sung.  It had the audacity to actually have the word "God" in it.

grabau

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Re: Tuesday afternoon
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2011, 04:30:37 PM »
rev klak - The space for 3rd sacrament is already claimed for absolution. Even 4th place is ordination if the Ap.AC is accepted.  grabau






iowakatie1981

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Re: Tuesday afternoon
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2011, 04:58:11 PM »
Lou, my friend, I'm not sure where you are coming from on this coffee business.  I do not want to be a person without a sense of humor, but surely you being in agriculture can have some sympathy for fair prices for products delivered, fair prices for producers.  I do wish a whole lot more would support "fair trade" coffee.  Again we should not take ourselves too seriously, but we can be capitalists and still be for producers who without fair trade are overpowered by Maxwell House owners.

For a different Christian perspective on fair trade, see here:
http://www.commonsenseconcept.com/fair-trade/

Team Hesse

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Re: Tuesday afternoon
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2011, 05:19:15 PM »
Lou, my friend, I'm not sure where you are coming from on this coffee business.  I do not want to be a person without a sense of humor, but surely you being in agriculture can have some sympathy for fair prices for products delivered, fair prices for producers.  I do wish a whole lot more would support "fair trade" coffee.  Again we should not take ourselves too seriously, but we can be capitalists and still be for producers who without fair trade are overpowered by Maxwell House owners.

Welllll, on this issue most people don't know what they are talking about. The "fair" language usually comes out of some romantic nostalgia for "the good old days" when 40 acres and a mule would almost support a family at a meager existence. I grew up on a farm that worked my parents unmercifully. My father never missed a milking of the cows for the first 15 years of his married life. I am grateful that our business has grown to the point that we are incorporated (for tax reasons) and we have enough people (all family except one) that all of us have some free time for other activities we enjoy and don't have to live hand to mouth.
I am no Luddite which is what most of these "fair to farmers" initiatives strike me as--an attempt to lock people into an outdated mode of agricultural production and marketing. I'm grateful for the opportunity to fail or succeed in a robust economic system and supporting people in an outmoded system is merely postponing the inevitable IMNSHO. Sorry, Paul, my friend, but that is how I sees 'em.
"Maxwell House" style production is no threat to well-managed modern family farms. In fact, big corporations are smart enough to stay away from strong family run sectors.
Lou

Paul L. Knudson

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Re: Tuesday afternoon
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2011, 05:34:19 PM »
I guess this is not the place to have this discussion, Lou.  Maybe when we are together in person we can see if there can be any mutual understanding on this matter.  Seems to me you are comparing apples and oranges, but then we will not resolve this in the midst of a discussion of the ELCA assembly.

I read the suggested link and was not convinced, but again this is not the place to keep this going.

PTMcCain

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Re: Tuesday afternoon
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2011, 06:45:05 PM »
The thing about a lot of the so-called "fair trade" coffee I've tried is that it is only a couple notches above Maxwell House.

That makes me sad.