Author Topic: CORE/NALC  (Read 4359 times)

PTMcCain

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Re: CORE/NALC
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2011, 09:47:07 AM »
Lou, in other words, you once more experienced the joy of his truth:

How sweet are your words to my taste, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
Psalm 119:103

Paul L. Knudson

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Re: CORE/NALC
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2011, 09:56:55 AM »
Lou, I agree with you in part.  I do think some of the talks were not exactly on theme as directly as they could have been.  I believe McDermot was very much on target and dealt well with the challenges to historic Christian understandings of salvation.  I personally like Benne, but I have heard him speak of this before.  Would have hoped for more from him that was not only refuting the trajectory of the ELCA.  I did very much like Sarah and the three Thursday morning presentations.  They were for me excellent.

I do not believe this kind of event can go about it like some of the events you were at recently.  I do long for those events, however, to be the common experience of continuing ed at Luther Seminary.  Their absence is telling to me of the diminishing of solid theology there.

I'm off for a weekend family reunion.  Good to see you.  Wish we had connected for more conversation.

GalRev83

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Re: CORE/NALC
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2011, 10:01:32 AM »
I realize that ( in the eyes of some) the convocation was not a theological conference/seminar of the highest academic order -- but as an event designed to stimulate laity and clergy alike, to inspire further study and discussion in the future on local levels and by individuals, and as a tone setter for the NALC gathering I thought the event was masterfully planned and carried out. Sarah Hinlicky Wilson's wonderful presentation -as the work of a leading younger theologian -- bodes well for future convocations and the stated intention of NALC to foster theological study and discussion throughout the church.

Charles_Austin

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Re: CORE/NALC
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2011, 11:20:13 AM »
And, Pastor Smith, if smart, theologically-astute young women pastors in the NALC keep their level of involvement high, I think it bodes well for the future of that denomination.

Revbert

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Re: CORE/NALC
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2011, 01:47:08 PM »

I too was VERY impressed with her presentation.    Will DVD's be available?
According to Mark Chavez the papers will be published by ALPB and sold as a book + DVD package.

I am very glad to hear this.  I was not able to listen to very much of the conference due to other pressing matters during the day.  I will look forward to the publication of the papers along with the added wealth of the DVD of the in person presentations.

One of the added pleasures of listening to the Rev. Dr. Hinlicky Wilson was that following her presentation the evening ended with the service of Compline (LBW).  It was wonderful to be able to pray with those at the conference, join in the hymns and listen to the brief reading from Scripture with others, connected by the internet.  Causes me to have to re-think the place of technology in worship, not as an intrusion but as an inclusion of others separated by distance. 

Erma,

The use of the Internet to include those dispersed in worship has been a drum I have been beating for 10 years. I'm working on a theologically-focused paper on not only technology of HOW to do it (and there are some BAD ways begin pushed out there) but the theology behind such inclusion.

Dan_Biles

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Re: CORE/NALC
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2011, 10:07:57 PM »
I attended the theological conference.  The presentations were excellent.  It was the most mission-focused event I've been to in years.  Great to worship, too, without the banality of PC-English.  Overall, I came away renewed in evangelical zeal and confidence in the Lutheran heritage.

revklak

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Re: CORE/NALC
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2011, 02:59:16 PM »
I saw Rev. Bradosky speak a few months ago in Waupaca and was impressed.  I especially liked his answer to my question about the NALC and its plan for its own health coverage.  They do intend to be plain about NOT covering elective abortions in their health plan.  He also pointed out that not covering elective abortions means lower premiums overall due to the risks in any abortion.  He and the NALC have my prayers.

And specifically, what I got from the insurance folks, was not only elective abortions are NOT covered, but very specifically only when the LIFE of the mother is at stake will it be paid for -- LIFE and not HEALTH - that is, excluding the possiblity of abortions to avoid inconvenience (like bed rest) or mental "it makes me feel bad at this time' (both simplistic examples, but that's all I got now).  Also, contraception will NOT be covered either. 

Praise be to God....

As for the conference/convocation.. .it was excellent-- first church assembly/business mtg I actually enjoyed being at in nearly 15 years.  The messages were inspiring, the debates respectful, and even laughter and joking -- even during the voting!!!!

Scott6

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Re: CORE/NALC
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2011, 03:15:13 PM »
As for the conference/convocation.. .it was excellent-- first church assembly/business mtg I actually enjoyed being at in nearly 15 years.  The messages were inspiring, the debates respectful, and even laughter and joking -- even during the voting!!!!


Methinks that as the denomination matures, things will change.  But thanks be to God that it there is still giddy freedom at this time!

Harvey_Mozolak

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Re: CORE/NALC
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2011, 03:52:32 PM »
I was going to post this in a discussion that had veered off into talk of Holy Communion's is-ness...  but maybe here might be better.  I followed much of the NALC meeting online, couldn't come this year, we are moving, well in the process, right now it is hurry up and wait time...

I think of the tiny dust up at the NALC convention on a resolution about Eucharistic reception that spoke about "under the bread and wine" and someone offered a resolution that altered the reading about the elements to say "bread and the cup" and while there was some truth in a problem with the actual grammar of the sentence. someone pointed out that scripture itself speaks of the wine using the word "cup", somewhat synonymously.  Of course the one who wanted the amendment of change desired to do so to bring comfort to those who drink grape juice (I assume due to alcoholism or the fear of it, let’s say).  But the body evidently saw that it was a time for confession in what the elements were that Jesus used and what at least in the tradition of the church has been its practice.  Now I would never offer grape juice but I do have some issues with purposely communing in one kind.  Well, I see it that cup is also scriptural and it certainly is poetic and used frequently in very traditional and historic hymnody and prayer language.  Somehow I sympathize for both viewpoints on this phrasing.  These are times, unfortunately, that we cannot trust the poetic for its form of realism or the variety that might be ordinarily allowed in our language.  And that is very sad from my perspective.  Additionally, the convention, removed the word "Trinity" and replaced it with” Father, Son and Holy Spirit,” again because of those who would do away with "Father" language.  I have done the same in prayers, liturgy and sermonizing, added more into make sure to make sure less was not meant, assumed or allowed.    What will we pay for our need to confess all the time and with what might become stogy sameness and what will it cost not be free to praise with any of the newness the Spirit might offer to the church through the sanctified creativity of its people?  Interesting question.  New worry. 

And everyone went through the above two exercises with good humor, ease and a gracious allowance for the other side...  but I do not think that was very deep at all.   What of grape juice?  Will it be a point of division?  Do we always have to state F,S,HS or can we trust enough to say "the Holy Trinity"?     Hmmmm.    As you say, Scott, in the maturation process... when the kids become teens.... Harvey Mozolak
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Re: CORE/NALC
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2011, 03:58:40 PM »
I was going to post this in a discussion that had veered off into talk of Holy Communion's is-ness...  but maybe here might be better.  I followed much of the NALC meeting online, couldn't come this year, we are moving, well in the process, right now it is hurry up and wait time...

I think of the tiny dust up at the NALC convention on a resolution about Eucharistic reception that spoke about "under the bread and wine" and someone offered a resolution that altered the reading about the elements to say "bread and the cup" and while there was some truth in a problem with the actual grammar of the sentence. someone pointed out that scripture itself speaks of the wine using the word "cup", somewhat synonymously.  Of course the one who wanted the amendment of change desired to do so to bring comfort to those who drink grape juice (I assume due to alcoholism or the fear of it, let’s say).  But the body evidently saw that it was a time for confession in what the elements were that Jesus used and what at least in the tradition of the church has been its practice.  Now I would never offer grape juice but I do have some issues with purposely communing in one kind.  Well, I see it that cup is also scriptural and it certainly is poetic and used frequently in very traditional and historic hymnody and prayer language.  Somehow I sympathize for both viewpoints on this phrasing.  These are times, unfortunately, that we cannot trust the poetic for its form of realism or the variety that might be ordinarily allowed in our language.  And that is very sad from my perspective.  Additionally, the convention, removed the word "Trinity" and replaced it with” Father, Son and Holy Spirit,” again because of those who would do away with "Father" language.  I have done the same in prayers, liturgy and sermonizing, added more into make sure to make sure less was not meant, assumed or allowed.    What will we pay for our need to confess all the time and with what might become stogy sameness and what will it cost not be free to praise with any of the newness the Spirit might offer to the church through the sanctified creativity of its people?  Interesting question.  New worry. 

And everyone went through the above two exercises with good humor, ease and a gracious allowance for the other side...  but I do not think that was very deep at all.   What of grape juice?  Will it be a point of division?  Do we always have to state F,S,HS or can we trust enough to say "the Holy Trinity"?     Hmmmm.    As you say, Scott, in the maturation process... when the kids become teens.... Harvey Mozolak


For what it's worth, after very cordial discussion, nobody voted in favor of replacing "wine" with "cup."  And the motion to replace "Trinity" with "F, S, and HS" was approved with few or no votes against. 

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Re: CORE/NALC
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2011, 05:53:21 PM »
Having watched parts of the NALC events via the web this week and echo what Lou said.

+What exactly is the goal? Like the ELCA it seems one aspect is to rally the base, rah-rah stuff.

+Though I have read many of his writings, I had never heard Dr. Braaten speak. Such a thick accent. Hearing it took me back to coffee hour in 1975 in the basement of First Lutheran Church in (anytown), Minnesota.

+The panel discussion was great. For us admirers of Dr. Nestingen, we learned why he never went to the LCMS: Jack Pruess warned him not to, said he'd always be considered "alien". He used the metaphor of a fly being drawn to a lamp but not finding a place to land. Many of us can relate to that. Dr. Nestingen praised LCMS scholars over that of Seminex because he   could always "trust them". That got a varied response from the crowd, some quarters expressed dismay.
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Harvey_Mozolak

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Re: CORE/NALC
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2011, 08:36:37 PM »
Yes there is a strain of let's blame the AELC and Seminex.    It makes a number of us well at least me uncomfortable.  Harvey Mozolak of the NALC. 
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Re: CORE/NALC
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2011, 01:29:21 AM »
For what it's worth, after very cordial discussion, nobody voted in favor of replacing "wine" with "cup."  And the motion to replace "Trinity" with "F, S, and HS" was approved with few or no votes against.


I find this a bit ironic. On one hand, they don't want to use the biblical word, "cup," found in all four accounts of the words of institution, while the word "wine" is in none of them! Two of the four mention, "fruit of the vine". (While I believe that it was wine in the cup, I think that the use of "cup" is more than just a synonym for "wine" in that context.) On the other hand, they replace the non-biblical word, "Trinity," with the biblical phrase, "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: CORE/NALC
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2011, 07:24:18 AM »
For what it's worth, after very cordial discussion, nobody voted in favor of replacing "wine" with "cup."  And the motion to replace "Trinity" with "F, S, and HS" was approved with few or no votes against.


I find this a bit ironic. On one hand, they don't want to use the biblical word, "cup," found in all four accounts of the words of institution, while the word "wine" is in none of them! Two of the four mention, "fruit of the vine". (While I believe that it was wine in the cup, I think that the use of "cup" is more than just a synonym for "wine" in that context.) On the other hand, they replace the non-biblical word, "Trinity," with the biblical phrase, "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."

Brings back memories of my UMC days when there was actually a petition to the General Conference demanding that all hymns referring to wine have the word replaced by "grape juice"....heedless of the violence that would do to rhyme and meter, let alone to the work of deceased authors.   Thankfully, it failed.
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Re: CORE/NALC
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2011, 10:35:32 AM »
For what it's worth, after very cordial discussion, nobody voted in favor of replacing "wine" with "cup."  And the motion to replace "Trinity" with "F, S, and HS" was approved with few or no votes against.


I find this a bit ironic. On one hand, they don't want to use the biblical word, "cup," found in all four accounts of the words of institution, while the word "wine" is in none of them! Two of the four mention, "fruit of the vine". (While I believe that it was wine in the cup, I think that the use of "cup" is more than just a synonym for "wine" in that context.) On the other hand, they replace the non-biblical word, "Trinity," with the biblical phrase, "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."

Brings back memories of my UMC days when there was actually a petition to the General Conference demanding that all hymns referring to wine have the word replaced by "grape juice"....heedless of the violence that would do to rhyme and meter, let alone to the work of deceased authors.   Thankfully, it failed.


If they had sought to replace "wine" with "fruit of the vine" it would keep the rhyme (but not the rhythm).
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]