Author Topic: Smallcald Speaks: What do you reply  (Read 550 times)

Dadoo

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Smallcald Speaks: What do you reply
« on: August 11, 2011, 09:55:53 PM »
THis is kind of a test. Read this paragraph and tell me what you think of it:


Luther writes in his Smalcald Articles: "The truly Christian excommunication is that public, obstinate sinners should not be admitted to the sacrament or other fellowship in the church until they improve their behavior and avoid sin." (Book of Concord; Kolb/Wengert, p.323)
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David Garner

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Re: Smallcald Speaks: What do you reply
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2011, 10:26:03 PM »
Amen?
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

iowakatie1981

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Re: Smallcald Speaks: What do you reply
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2011, 10:27:16 PM »
THis is kind of a test. Read this paragraph and tell me what you think of it:


Luther writes in his Smalcald Articles: "The truly Christian excommunication is that public, obstinate sinners should not be admitted to the sacrament or other fellowship in the church until they improve their behavior and avoid sin." (Book of Concord; Kolb/Wengert, p.323)

Does "other fellowship" imply a policy of Amish-style shunning?  Because I think it's one thing to deny someone the Sacrament in rare, extreme, public, obstinate cases, but it's entirely another to refuse to have anything to do with them whatsoever...

CSLewis2

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Re: Smallcald Speaks: What do you reply
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2011, 10:31:22 PM »
THis is kind of a test. Read this paragraph and tell me what you think of it:


Luther writes in his Smalcald Articles: "The truly Christian excommunication is that public, obstinate sinners should not be admitted to the sacrament or other fellowship in the church until they improve their behavior and avoid sin." (Book of Concord; Kolb/Wengert, p.323)

Does "other fellowship" imply a policy of Amish-style shunning?  Because I think it's one thing to deny someone the Sacrament in rare, extreme, public, obstinate cases, but it's entirely another to refuse to have anything to do with them whatsoever...

I tend to agree with you. I believe in withholding the Sacrament but not shunning, since I want to continue to visit and pray with those who have been obstinant that perhaps they may repent and come to salvation. I would say they should not hold any leadership position including janitor until such time as they repent. However shunning I would think is too much and doesn't necessarily lead to a repentant heart. However, I might be wrong on this too.

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David Garner

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Re: Smallcald Speaks: What do you reply
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2011, 10:38:04 PM »
Taking the whole article in context, I don't think it's advocating shunning:

Quote
The greater excommunication, as the Pope calls it, we regard only as a civil penalty, and it does not concern us ministers of the Church. But the lesser, that is, the true Christian excommunication, consists in this, that manifest and obstinate sinners are not admitted to the Sacrament and other communion of the Church until they amend their lives and avoid sin. And ministers ought not to mingle secular punishments with this ecclesiastical punishment, or excommunication.

He's essentially contrasting the deposing of princes, etc., with the real excommunication called for in the Church, and he specifically says no secular punishments should be applied.  I would think "other fellowship" (or, as it says here, "other communion") refers to official Church fellowship, i.e., that person would not be admitted to the Sacraments.  My guess is it would be a pastoral decision as to how to treat them otherwise, whether to have them in the service of the Word, etc.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

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Re: Smallcald Speaks: What do you reply
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2011, 11:03:27 PM »
In my opinion, excommunication, being a public sanction, should only be applied to those who are a true and public σκάνδαλον. If this is indeed the case, then private efforts for their reconciliation should be redoubled, but public participation in any public event of the Church only increases the σκάνδαλον.

The biggest issue is to recognize what it truly a stumbling block to those who would come to Christ as Savior, and what is our own sinful attempt to limit the scope of God's mercy. Never let us forget that our Lord was a true σκάνδαλον to the world.

ἐν Χριστῷ

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